Why is toxic fandom destroying everything?

[Gaith]

If I'm an actor at this point and I receive an offer to audition for something in Star Wars, a franchise that, in the last decade, has either had to tell fans publicly to chill the hell out with the harassment (e.g. Moses Ingram) or turn a blind eye to the toxicity entirely (Kelly Marie Tran) - not once, but multiple times - I'd avoid that shit like the plague.

All that grief and anguish just ain't worth it when you're trying to build a career. And now that these studios who stand by and do nothing are aligning themselves with these toxic "fans" just compounds the problem and makes the future landscape rather fucking bleak. The absolute last opinion any creator should care about when creating something is what the die-hards are gonna think.

One could do that, sure. Or - and this might sound crazy, but hear me out - one could take the role, and its potential massive career boost, and pay a remote worker $25/hr for 2-3 hours per day for six months or so to scrub your public "social" media profiles of racism and toxicity. Hell, if you ask, the studio may even offer to hire someone themselves to do that for you for six months. Or, one could simply not do public-facing social media at all. Does it stink that toxic trolls exist at all? Of course, but noping out of big franchise roles for that reason alone is needlessly self-sabotaging.

All that grief and anguish just ain't worth it when you're trying to build a career. And now that these studios who stand by and do nothing are aligning themselves with these toxic "fans"

Not giving toxic sh*t-stirrers attention isn't "aligning" with them; it's common sense. "Don't feed the trolls."

Does anyone here think that Trek's studios (before toxic trolls could send actors online messages directly) didn't get toxic/hate mail for the likes of, say, Nichelle Nichols or Avery Brooks? I'd be pretty darn surprised if they didn't, and if some mail room clerk didn't have the menial job or sorting out the crap. But then that clerk would have thrown said crap in the trash, not gone to the actors' trailers and read it to them as they got their makeup done. And does anyone think the pre-Internet fan scene would have been better had said actors talked about their hate mail in nearly every interview or public appearance?

 

[TedShatner10]

Thing is all of the hateful, trashy, and bigoted brainjunk was confined to the dead lettering of "hate mail" (and much of that got filtered out thankfully by editors, although nobody or nothing in the process was ever perfect).

But now almost everybody can be a content creator ranting out the same dogma (that gets parroted by any vulnerable idiot or even chat bots ad naseum anywhere around the clock).

 

[cooleddie74]

I'm looking at you, Doomcock. The stupid Mexican wrestling mask and horde of followers don't change the fact you're just an incel troll.

 

[Firebird]

One could do that, sure. Or - and this might sound crazy, but hear me out - one could take the role, and its potential massive career boost, and pay a remote worker $25/hr for 2-3 hours per day for six months or so to scrub your public "social" media profiles of racism and toxicity. Hell, if you ask, the studio may even offer to hire someone themselves to do that for you for six months. Or, one could simply not do public-facing social media at all. Does it stink that toxic trolls exist at all? Of course, but noping out of big franchise roles for that reason alone is needlessly self-sabotaging.



Not giving toxic sh*t-stirrers attention isn't "aligning" with them; it's common sense. "Don't feed the trolls."

Does anyone here think that Trek's studios (before toxic trolls could send actors online messages directly) didn't get toxic/hate mail for the likes of, say, Nichelle Nichols or Avery Brooks? I'd be pretty darn surprised if they didn't, and if some mail room clerk didn't have the menial job or sorting out the crap. But then that clerk would have thrown said crap in the trash, not gone to the actors' trailers and read it to them as they got their makeup done. And does anyone think the pre-Internet fan scene would have been better had said actors talked about their hate mail in nearly every interview or public appearance?

Asking the studios for protection is fucking laughable. Just ask Kelly Marie Tran how much they helped her out in the wake of The Last Jedi. Ask yourself why John Boyega doesn’t wanna have anything to do with SW anymore. Hell, IIRC, it was the toxic fans that drove Lucas to sell off the franchise. These are the same studio entities that have to forced to pay basic livable wages in periodic labor actions.

It’s ludicrous to accept any job where you have to hire on fixers just to achieve a basic minimum of human empathy. No job on the planet is worth that. Star Wars ain’t worth that.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I'm looking at you, Doomcock. The stupid Mexican wrestling mask and horde of followers don't change the fact you're just an incel troll.

There are a lot of people out there that believe Doomcock is also the fascist YouTuber named "Kommandant".

Just Google "Is doomcock kommandant?"

 

[cooleddie74]

Oh. Joy.

 

[JD]

It really is pretty sad that putting up with the kind of behavior we're talking about in this thread has become such a standard part of being hired on to a big franchise. I think for a lot of actors something like that is enough of dream come true they'll still do it, but it's pretty bad that they'd even need to think about putting with the reaction they'd get from that whole side of the fandom.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I don't think toxic fandom is destroying anything.

Toxic fans are artificially amplified by the social media algorithms. The cure is the block button.

 

[cooleddie74]

The toxic fanbase almost drove Jake Lloyd to suicide. That should have been the thing that set off alarm bells all over fandom, but nope, gotta stoke the enraged fan fires, scream "freedom of expression" and target every actor or producer who participates in a project you think "dishonors" or "blasphemes" something you love. There are far too many sociopathic, entitled fans out there in the social media era for this to just go away, so all we can hope for is a gradual shift in how over-the-top and vitriolic people get about shows and films they don't care about.

 

[Firebird]

The toxic fanbase almost drove Jake Lloyd to suicide. That should have been the thing that set off alarm bells all over fandom, but nope, gotta stoke the enraged fan fires, scream "freedom of expression" and target every actor or producer who participates in a project you think "dishonors" or "blasphemes" something you love. There are far too many sociopathic, entitled fans out there in the social media era for this to just go away, so all we can hope for is a gradual shift in how over-the-top and vitriolic people get about shows and films they don't care about.

For every person that says "oh, just put up with it, you big baby" or "just use the block button" only serves to normalize this abhorrent behavior.

 

[StarTrek1701]

“Egregious continuity issue!”

I somehow doubt you got tossed over simple continuity issues.

Unfortunately I don't have the links to back myself up so you gotta take my word for it.
Reddit moderators are very trigger happy specially in their Trek and Wars boards.

Yeah, nobody gets run off a message board for contesting continuity issues, and certainly not here - not unless the poster is a wimp who flounces when challenged on basic assertions. If "racism and bigotry" were stated reasons....something happened.

Read above. Certain moderators on Reddit and other boards love to show off their ban-hammer powers unless you tow the exact line they want you to.
And I wasn't talking about here. TrekBBS is a very open minded board unlike other ones.

 

[StarTrek1701]

The toxic fanbase almost drove Jake Lloyd to suicide. That should have been the thing that set off alarm bells all over fandom, but nope, gotta stoke the enraged fan fires, scream "freedom of expression" and target every actor or producer who participates in a project you think "dishonors" or "blasphemes" something you love. There are far too many sociopathic, entitled fans out there in the social media era for this to just go away, so all we can hope for is a gradual shift in how over-the-top and vitriolic people get about shows and films they don't care about.

Link: https://deadline.com/2024/03/mother...th-quit-acting-the-phantom-menace-1235856879/

Excerpt:
“It would have happened anyway,” Lisa said, noting the medical history of schizophrenia on Jake’s father’s side of the family. “I believe that it was genetic. And his psychiatrist also agrees that Jake was going to become schizophrenic.
She continued, “I protected him from the backlash. He was just riding his bike outside, playing with his friends. He didn’t know. He didn’t care. Everybody makes such a big deal about that. And it’s rather annoying to me because Jake was a little kid when that came out, and he didn’t really feel all that stuff because I didn’t let him online.”
Lisa also clarified that Jake didn’t quit acting due to Star Wars as “it had to do with our family. And we were going through divorce.”
Although Lisa doesn’t see Jake returning to the Star Wars universe, she does recall he “loved filming Star Wars. He had so much fun.”
--
For years the media reported it was the toxic fanbase that led Lloyd down his path but that wasn't the case. Sometimes the lies are repeated so much that they feel like the truth.
Similarly in 2014 nobody of note gave Boyega or Ridley any hard times about their characters, fandom turned on Disney Star Wars because of stupid decisions made by Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams post TLJ/RoS.

 

[cooleddie74]

Well, that excuses everything.

 

[fireproof78]

Similarly in 2014 nobody of note gave Boyega or Ridley any hard times about their characters, fandom turned on Disney Star Wars because of stupid decisions made by Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams post TLJ/RoS.

I love how it has to be "of note" in order to count.

Never mind the racist comments around stormtroopers not able to be black, or tired complaints of Rey's abilities. Nope, that's not noteworthy.

It really is pretty sad that putting up with the kind of behavior we're talking about in this thread has become such a standard part of being hired on to a big franchise. I think for a lot of actors something like that is enough of dream come true they'll still do it, but it's pretty bad that they'd even need to think about putting with the reaction they'd get from that whole side of the fandom.

See also the reports of mail when word of Spock's death leaked about TWOK. Fans are not rational over this stuff, even though their lives are not impacted by these choices.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Ask yourself why John Boyega doesn’t wanna have anything to do with SW anymore

Boyega's well-covered issues with Star Wars had a great deal to do with his justified belief that LFL/Disney mistreated and marginalized him (as actor and character) in the ST and its advertising due to his race. It was not toxic fans that left him bitter at his Star Wars experience, but the allegedly progressive PTB at Disney/LFL.

I don't think toxic fandom is destroying anything.

Toxic fans are artificially amplified by the social media algorithms. The cure is the block button.

Agreed; exercising the power of avoiding toxic fan social media posts / platforms is not an impossible task.

 

[Firebird]

Boyega's well-covered issues with Star Wars had a great deal to do with his justified belief that LFL/Disney mistreated and marginalized him (as actor and character) in the ST and its advertising due to his race. It was not toxic fans that left him bitter at his Star Wars experience, but the allegedly progressive PTB at Disney/LFL.

That just goes back to my first point of expecting any help from the studio is utterly laughable prospect. Disney has shown time and time again that PoC and female actors are largely on their own.

 

[cooleddie74]

The way they just casually removed Boyega from Chinese posters for Sequel Trilogy films (Episode IX in particular) is indicative of how Disney loves to play the inclusivity card for most promotional pushes but will leave actors of color out to dry if a desired market has cultural hangups about their skin tone and ethnicity.

 

[PCz911]

One could do that, sure. Or - and this might sound crazy, but hear me out - one could take the role, and its potential massive career boost, and pay a remote worker $25/hr for 2-3 hours per day for six months or so to scrub your public "social" media profiles of racism and toxicity. Hell, if you ask, the studio may even offer to hire someone themselves to do that for you for six months. Or, one could simply not do public-facing social media at all. Does it stink that toxic trolls exist at all? Of course, but noping out of big franchise roles for that reason alone is needlessly self-sabotaging.



Not giving toxic sh*t-stirrers attention isn't "aligning" with them; it's common sense. "Don't feed the trolls."

Does anyone here think that Trek's studios (before toxic trolls could send actors online messages directly) didn't get toxic/hate mail for the likes of, say, Nichelle Nichols or Avery Brooks? I'd be pretty darn surprised if they didn't, and if some mail room clerk didn't have the menial job or sorting out the crap. But then that clerk would have thrown said crap in the trash, not gone to the actors' trailers and read it to them as they got their makeup done. And does anyone think the pre-Internet fan scene would have been better had said actors talked about their hate mail in nearly every interview or public appearance?

I should think that An aspiring actor will take the role as a career boost ….regardless of the social media fallout. For them the question is “ do I continue to wait tables or…”.

It easier to take the job, and then just to walk away from social media and not be bothered.

I would also get some pr training and have the blandest answers to questions during the inevitable interview stage so as not to piss off the sensitive right or left wing fanatics. Be boring, it’s safer.

Well, thats what I would were I a young ambitious actor looking for a big break. But, as I am not, this is mere speculation.

 

[StarTrek1701]

I love how it has to be "of note" in order to count.

Never mind the racist comments around stormtroopers not able to be black, or tired complaints of Rey's abilities. Nope, that's not noteworthy.

Yes, it does. Majority of SW fans didn't give a flying fuck about Boyega being a black stormtrooper. A few trolls with amplified voices by the media doesn't count.
Disney themselves downplayed his arc and set his body+face to be smaller in international posters.
As far as Rey goes her character itself was bland and one note. JJ's addiction to mystery boxes that go nowhere was also a cause.

 

[Gaith]

Asking the studios for protection is fucking laughable.

Variety: "Several studio insiders say they often put their talent through a social media boot camp; in some cases, when a character is intentionally challenging a franchise’s status quo, studios will, with the actor’s permission, take over their social media accounts entirely. When things get really bad — especially involving threats of violence — security firms will scrub talent information from the internet to protect them from doxxing."

Ha, ha, ha?

It’s ludicrous to accept any job where you have to hire on fixers just to achieve a basic minimum of human empathy. No job on the planet is worth that. Star Wars ain’t worth that.

So, your big solution is to give the worst of the toxic trolls exactly what they want? There's a word for that attitude, and it rhymes with "howard-tiss."

For every person that says "oh, just put up with it, you big baby" or "just use the block button" only serves to normalize this abhorrent behavior.

And yet you're the only person here advocating surrender to this abhorrent behavior... which is the most normalizing tack of all.

Well, that excuses everything.

When you've shown to have promulgated a falsehood, the honorable thing is to acknowledge your error.