Yeah, there's this weird all or nothing attitude in many fandoms that I just don't get.
Why is toxic fandom destroying everything?
- Thread starter Sgt. Sacrament
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Yeah, I think that's a large part of the issue; no real character arcs throughout her trilogy, nothing being properly set up, which makes it more difficult to buy into everything happening to her and around her. I think the reception to the movies would have been received better had the trilogy been built up better.
Same.
I'm starting to feel that way about many things, like I'm the weird one for daring to like things. But, that's always been my way. I grew up with fun films like Surf Ninjas, Carpool, The Quest, Goonies, 3 Ninjas, Ten Commandments, or TV shows like Seaquest, or Step by Step. Only after I got older did I realize such things were regarded so negatively. I rewatched the Pacifier last night with my kids and we all loved it; apparently it has a 21% or something.
I'm just someone who finds enjoyment in things that apparently everyone else hates...who knew?
That is definitely not true. I've never met anyone who doesn't think the EU had issues/stupid things happen in it. Now I'm sure many people would have preferred the movies take inspiration from the good parts of the EU (like the shows are doing with Thrawn), but nobody wanted 1:1. The real issue was when Kennedy said: "Every one of these movies is a particularly hard nut to crack. There's no source material. We don't have comic books. We don't have 800-page novels." Of course Star Wars has both in spades. I find it hard to believe the head of the franchise doesn't know of the existence of the tie in comics and books, but I can't come up with an interpretation of the statement that makes sense if she does know about them.
We must run in different SW circles. Even if they acknowledge them, they're fun or the writers have "respect" for the material. But, the EU has hit a huge upswing in "THIS IS STAR WARS" in my interactions with fans.
Probably doesn't regard them as authoritative, unlike other "source material" since that was Lucas' attitude, with his famous "Luke doesn't get married" comment.
Basically what I was thinking. The source material for comic book movies are comic books. The source material for Harry Potter is Rowling's novels. The source material for Star Wars movies is previous Star Wars movies. Licensed comics and novels for material that was created for the screen are just scribbling in the margins. The folks in charge of the films don't credit them as anything but another form of merchandising -- nor should they.
In Disney/Kathleen Kennedy's Star Wars? You must be joking.
His power levels have something to do with it, but yes, Obi-Wan was clearly doing most of the Force work of communicating there, and one could just as plausibly assume Obi-Wan helped with Luke's shot itself.
Well, that's objectively false. The events of ESB, galactically speaking, are not a "bigger bang" than ANH and the destruction of the first Death Star, nor are the events of TPM more obviously consequential than those of RotJ. (And, if you're going to arrange things chronologically, the events of ANH aren't more consequential than those of ROTS.)
1) So you admit that Rey accomplishes more than Luke does in her first movie.
2) Regardless, your statement is really the core problem right there. We accept Luke's accomplishments in the original Star Wars because in part because it was the original - i.e., it had to introduce the whole world and multiple characters. In order to maintain a fast pace, some shortcuts, like the instant travel from Tatooine to Alderaan, making a mockery of Luke's statement that his homeworld is the "farthest" place from "a bright center to the universe," were made, and only the most attentive fans noticed.
A thoughtful way to build on the legacy of the OT, then, would have been to trust that the audience, being familiar with and already invested in the SW galaxy, would tolerate and even appreciate a more gradual, layered hero, and a story that didn't go from opening titles to "OMG, A PLANET-DESTROYING DEATH STAR!!!" in an hour of screen time.
You can say that fans had no entitlement to a more thoughtful, complex story, and that's true, but it's also true that to chastise them for hoping for one is settling for mediocrity.
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Disney/Kennedy also greenlit Andor, and the very first scene of that show takes place in a brothel. Don't think that, just because they leave some things off screen for their family-friendly movies and shows that means they don't think these things happen in-universe.
Star Wars is mediocre at times. The PT proved that.
As I said, I think the people who produced the ST and the leadership who saw the enormous pain inflicted upon Lucas, wanted to avoid that. So they rean the opposite direct, gave us familiar touchstones, while adding more layers in to the world. Rey's story was one I found deeply moving, so if that is mediocre then I'll take it.
Missed opportunity? Yes, but given the situation I always see Star Wars missing opportunities because it is so far up on the pedestal that it cannot be anything but disappointing. I was disappointed in 1999 and now I'm far more disappointed in fans reaction, because I see it in a reflection of the worst aspects of myself.
I know what you mean, I liked all 5 Pirates of the Carribean, all 4 Matrixes, and The Hobbit trilogy.
If you're looking for thoughtful, complex stories, than modern studio, blockbuster movies are not for you. Modern blockbusters are all about the spectacle, and some do manage to give us a good story and characters to go along with it, but there are very, very few that you could describe as having a thoughtful, complex story. And whether we like it or not, the Star Wars movies are some of the blockbusters out there right now, so they're going to have to follow that criteria.
Oh yes they did. They said that they were hoping that TFA would be the Thrawn Trilogy with no changes.
As opposed to Kennedy's reasonable attitude of the EU being unfilmable.
This is the same problem the Halo fans had: They wanted the show to be a 1:1 of the games with no differences.
Meanwhile, both Fallout and Castlevania fans were fine with their shows not being 1:1 adaptations. Funny how that goes.
You can't really build on what happened in the OT because ROTJ crippled the series' potential for growth and then the 30 year gap crippled it more. To say nothing of all the damage the Prequels did.
A semi-restart was necessary because ROTJ basically left nothing to work with. But Lucas not expanding the Universe in the OT when he had the time didn't help.
Sure you can. It's called creativity. In-universe, there must have been lots that has happened in between the two eras. In fact the amount of elapsed time gives it a great storytelling opportunity and massive potential. And I don't accept that they couldn't given people had waited 30 years for sequels. You find ways. You could even do something of a parallel between the time of WW1 and WW2, with the First Order rising up due to feelings within the remnants of the Empire fermenting resentment. But, fact is, they hardly established any kind of backstory that made much sense. They kind of just had it exist and we had to accept it.
Yeah. ROTJ is the happily ever after for the saga. I think Lucas should have done the ST first.
Oh, no.If that's how you feel, then you deserve the ST, all three episode of it.
The horror
ROTJ ends on a note of "And they all lived happily ever after, the end forever". Lucas kills all the villains, he leaves nowhere for new villains to come from, it all ends on the note that this is the end of history and Luke and Han and Leia will usher in a time of permanent peace.
He left no room for proper continuation past that point, instead of leaving ANY sequel threads.
Then things are further crippled in the Prequels when Lucas says "Oh that Prophecy they talked about was the permanent destruction of the Darkside so after Vader kills Palpatine and dies there can be no more Darksiders at all" when Darksiders are the one true enemy of SW and it needs them
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