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And ratings are all that really matter, of course, for renewal. Take for example, Doctor Who. I do follow ratings, and I know that it's been getting the lowest ratings in its history, streaming numbers included.
Disney+ has not released numbers for Doctor Who at all, so nobody knows anything about its streaming ratings. Broadcast ratings on BBC1 are likely down, but that's to be expected given the episodes are available online close to seventeen hours before BBC1 airs them.
It's not enough to just stop watching something, people have to let the world know and why. I wonder if the amount of vitriol directed at something they hate is inverse to how much they used to love it, sort of basking in a negative fandom because they can't connect with their old love. Instead of just turning it off and moving onto something else.
Toxic fandom is merely a vocal minority that gets attention simply because our culture tends to favor those with something negative to say for some reason. It's possible many of them actually like the shows they lambast on YouTube or whatever, they just know that posting hate content will generate clicks for them and so that's what they focus on. Playing for an audience, basically.
I think it also stems from America. America is at war with itself and finds any way to open a new front. I mean the rest of the world watches in shock and surprise to see Americans dress up groups like "Flat Earthers". Give them a brand and identity. Constantly go to war with them which is a bit like publishing artciles and arguing water is wet. Whereas the rest of the world would just walk by and let them rant or fizzle out.
America seems to elevate its weird and negative voices so it can argue with them.
It even goes down to Apple vs Android. Just pages and pages of people bickering. Everything is a battle.
"Toxic" fandom is just another front in this endless war over anything.
It would be great if people just showed the same courtesy, patience, and respect to others that they would like to be shown to themselves. What's so hard about that? Why does everything have to be contentious?
Oversaturating the market has killed them more than anything else. I can only go watch Iron Man pummel someone, so many times before I start looking for other things to do.
Oversaturating the market has killed them more than anything else. I can only go watch Iron Man pummel someone, so many times before I start looking for other things to do.
Yeah, exactly. There is such a thing as too much of a good thing. Like, if you're eating sweets all the time, you'll eventually feel sick. Or tire of them. Basically, while they had their time, it was unsustainable in the long-run, and I'm surprised it lasted that way for as long as it did.
While I enjoyed some of the movies, I had tuned out before the end of the Avengers, and I think the most recent one I'd watched was Black Panther 2.
I got to admit, even though I have kept up to date with MCU movies and shows, I don't really miss them now that there's been a break for close to half a year.
That is one thing that really gets me. If you don't like something then don't watch. If enough people don't watch, then the producers will make a course correction--but if people enjoy the new material, then let them enjoy it.
I think that a lot of toxic culture, which includes both the ultra left and the ultra right, demand that others live and think like they do. In a democracy we have the right to act and believe how we want to as long as we are not infringing on the same rights given to others. I think that a lot of toxicity comes from a failure to understand that.
Sometimes updates are good and sometime they are ill-conceived or poorly executed. A good producer knows how to read criticism and has a small enough ego to roll back changes if they were a bad idea, and enough confidence to stick to them it they are a good idea (even if controversial). The new Daleks and Klingons, for example, were rolled back but the TWOK uniforms and Ahsoka Tano stuck around.
This is something I struggle with, because, while I'm all for diversity in entertainment, and am politically quite progressive, I do find myself agreeing with a lot of toxic voices' takes on marquee genre matters. Some examples (listing them in spoilers so as to not overwhelm the post):
- I do think the Sequel Trilogy was an insult to fans of the OT, and that the characters of Han, Luke, and Leia were badly handled. I do think Rey lacked character flaws from the start, and I do think Johnson was actively trolling many fans with TLJ.
- I appreciate that many female audiences really enjoyed Wonder Woman, and I thought Gadot was excellent casting. But, I found the movie itself unbearably stupid and badly written.
- Yes, Captain Marvel was pretty mediocre. Yes, the way Fury lost his eye cheapened his badass character for a gag.
- The first season of Picard, while it had some good aspects, was in many ways disrespectful to the title character.
- Obi-Wan Kenobi was a horribly written show, and the character of Reva in particular was spectacularly incoherent. And the writing on Boba Fett wasn't much better.
- I haven't seen her show/movie, but it does seem to make no sense that Kamala Khan is so gaga over a hero who's made no public appearances on Earth, and has only spent a few days there since the early 90s.
- Ghostbusters 2016 did, to use a scientific term, totally suck.
Of course, entertainment has always been of variable quality, but, with more and more options to choose from, it would behoove studios to do their utmost to make sure they're putting out fine-tuned, well-written movies and shows. And while there's never an excuse to go after creators personally, whether on social media or otherwise, I do think that when studios build on beloved legacy IP in order to help make a buck, they run an inherent risk of irritating people if they make poor product. Consequently, too often, legitimate criticism then gets lumped in with toxic criticism; unfortunately, negativity about other peoples' negativity grabs more attention than outright positivity or even-handedness.
Meanwhile, shrinking economics for unbiased, even-handed reviews are hurting the overall scene on an online culture level. A decade ago, outlets like The AV Club and Screen Junkies were thriving, putting out tons of constructive, thoughtful content. Today, their most prominent voices are long gone, and their output is both scant and anemic. Screen Junkies is pretty much just Honest Trailers now, without even the accompanying commentaries. Sans decent salaries supporting even-handed views, it's only natural that reactions/analysis which do emerge from those who try to produce them as a career tend to extremes of criticism or adulation.
Finally - while, again, I can't stress enough that I don't support toxicity or personal attacks at all - I do often see what feels to me like outright fan/IP disrespect from studios and their output. Two examples that pop to mind: one, Kathleen Kennedy said in a recent interview that male Star Wars fans can be particularly tough on the IP's female creators - but she didn't say a damn thing when Disney nuked Lucasfilm's entire Willow series (and it's still not commercially available, even for purchase, anywhere). Seems pretty hypocritical to call out fans for being mean, when you're part of a company that virtually erased your own employees' work, thereby denying them the residuals and exposure they could have earned from it. For all their meanness, critical or even toxic Star Wars fans haven't erased anything; Disney did that.
Random example two, though I haven't seen it, from what I've heard, the whole development of the Madame Web movie sounds like a complete clusterfruitcake. Yes, movie productions are often incredibly complex, and unforeseen developments and complications happen all the time. But that movie sounds so fundamentally misconceived, and so mangled in post-production, that it's nearly impossible to believe its corporate producers had any intention of making a good film. Corporations don't owe the public good films, or even well-intentioned efforts, necessarily, but still, disrespect is disrespect.
One last note: the context of the times also matters, and today's political reality is that one of the US's two main parties is about to nominate a convicted felon for president who tried to steal an election, incited an insurrection, continues to lie about that election's legitimacy, and is facing all kinds of additional criminal trials, to say nothing of making stochastic terroristic threats left and right. That's real ugliness for a nation to deal with, and it would be naive to expect such ugliness not to infect the culture at large.
Sometimes updates are good and sometime they are ill-conceived or poorly executed. A good producer knows how to read criticism and has a small enough ego to roll back changes if they were a bad idea, and enough confidence to stick to them it they are a good idea (even if controversial).
Exactly, and I feel it takes maturity to admit where they've made mistakes. But toxicity is not limited to the side of the fans. Rather, we've seen it happen with those involved in production going after those who've voiced opinions. Personally, that kind of behavior will turn me off and it feels very unprofessional.
Not only that, but while there are definitely reasons for being defensive of a production, studios do need to stop blaming viewers for failure. It's not a way to win fans and it doesn't set a good precedent. If a show is good enough, it will stand on its own. And if not, at least you tried and took a risk on it.
"Why is toxic fandom destroying everything?"
It's not. Here's an analogy:
One day you go to your favorite restaurant. It's a popular restaurant that everyone enjoys.
On this particular day, when they bring you your food, it's a piece of warm steaming cat poop. The garnish is nice, but it's still warm steaming cat poop on a plate.
You do not like it. Nobody likes it except for well-paid food "critics" and crazy people who refuse to acknowledge they're being served literal $h!t.
Then when you declare, "They used to serve good food. Now it's just $h!t. I'm not going there anymore.", that's when the restaurant owners, the food critics, and the crazy people accuse you of being "toxic".
"Why are you so 'toxic'? Maybe it has a little something to do with the server, perhaps? Is it because she wasn't white enough or male enough for you? Hmmmm?"
You respond with, "No, that has nothing to do with it. It's because you brought me a plate with a cat turd on it!"
"Yeah sure, fascist. Why don't you just go put on your MAGA hat and cry to your Incel buddies, you toxic scumbag!"
Then one day you notice a forum post that says, "Why Are Toxic Epicureans Ruining Fine Dining?"
"Why is toxic fandom destroying everything?"
It's not. Here's an analogy:
One day you go to your favorite restaurant. It's a popular restaurant that everyone enjoys.
On this particular day, when they bring you your food, it's a piece of warm steaming cat poop. The garnish is nice, but it's still warm steaming cat poop on a plate.
You do not like it. Nobody likes it except for well-paid food "critics" and crazy people who refuse to acknowledge they're being served literal $h!t.
Then when you declare, "They used to serve good food. Now it's just $h!t. I'm not going there anymore.", that's when the restaurant owners, the food critics, and the crazy people accuse you of being "toxic".
"Why are you so 'toxic'? Maybe it has a little something to do with the server, perhaps? Is it because she wasn't white enough or male enough for you? Hmmmm?"
You respond with, "No, that has nothing to do with it. It's because you brought me a plate with a cat turd on it!"
"Yeah sure, fascist. Why don't you just go put on your MAGA hat and cry to your Incel buddies, you toxic scumbag!"
Then one day you notice a forum post that says, "Why Are Toxic Epicureans Ruining Fine Dining?"
The really telling part is the business about, "Is it because she wasn't white enough or male enough for you?" and "Why don't you just go put on your MAGA hat and cry to your Incel buddies."
I've criticized and complained about plenty of things in my time, but I've never once received those types of accusations in response. Funny, that.
Guess I just haven't been making the right kinds of complaints.
I think if you go to a restaurant and get served something you were not expecting/didn't order and don't want then you politely ask them to take it back. Obviously somebody else likes the meal or it wouldn't be on the menu--and you were served the incorrect meal so the kitchen will get you your correct order. Or, if you are sufficiently disturbed, then just ask to be excused from you bill and don't go back to that restaurant.
Hot take: The way to marginalize toxic fandom is to produce a good product.
If you make a good product, the vast majority of the audience doesn't give a shit about what a bunch of whiners on YouTube and Twitter think about diversity. For example, The Expanse had a diverse cast, with strong female characters. The first Black Panther film was a success with a majority Black cast. Was there fanboy whining calling them a "woke" show or movie? I'm sure, but they were a marginalized element given the quality of those products.
Not discounting that this element of fandom exists and is a pain in the ass, but the counter-argument is that when a studio like Disney puts out something that's not well-received, it's easier to blame that reception as being a function of the assholes within the fanbase than to admit their work had flaws.
All opinions are subjective, but there are arguably legitimate reasons to dislike something like The Acolyte that go beyond the bigoted fanboy bs. Personal opinion, leave the politics out of it for a second, and judge it on its own terms for what it is, and that entire "power of one, power of two, power of maaaaaaannnnnyyy" sequence was just goofy beyond goofy, even for a universe with talking dog people and giant gangster slugs. And going beyond that, it's just a poorly paced show that's central mystery is poorly structured with characters making decisions because the plot needs them to.
