Why is TOS still #1?

[RAMA]

Before TNG there was only TOS (and TAS and the films) and that was Star Trek. While TNG was in its run I think it did get the lion's share of attention largely because it was the newest material and everybody seemed to be watching it. Also during the mid '80s to early '90s it was somewhat cool or at least okay to be into Trek since it was tapping into the mainstream.

But after TNG ended its run the broad interest didn't really translate to the subsequent spinoffs and films. Trek seemed to go somewhat off the radar for the broader public.

Although there are a lot of TNG fans I don't think it percolated into the public mainstream the way TOS did, which after all had a twenty year head start and it was the first.

The issue isn't which one has more fans, but which one has become and remained the most recognized. Before TNG we also saw mainstream science occasionally invoking references to TOS. When TNG was in production many of those references were transferred to TNG. But after TNG the references began refering back to TOS again.

TOS did have its commercial considerations as did TNG and the later shows. But perhaps it has something more to do with when the shows were produced. TOS came out of a time of creative innovation and experimentation in many art forms. The '80s had its measure of creativity as well, but the era is not generally remembered as such. And some of that sensibility may or may not have seeped into the shows themselves.

As the saying goes, absence makes the heart grow fonder....when Trek was gone for 10 years in the 70s, there was a huge groundswell of support to bring it back....STNG never had that. Its the only thing missing from the phenomenon equation of both shows. What happened instead was a movie immediately following and 3 other shows!

RAMA

 

[VOODOOXI]

Kirk, Spock and the rest of the TOS crew are icons.

The farther away the series got away from these icons the more the series lost what made it special. Simply throwing bland characters in a series named "Star Trek" (Voy, Ent, Ds9) will not cut it anymore.

The general public only cares about these characters. That is why Paramount is giving us another Kirk + Spock film.

 

[AlanC9]

Once one kind of Trek gets into the consciousness of people who don't particularly care about or like science fiction, there's no real way for it to get displaced. People who don't like Trek don't need anything more than TOS.

I'm not sure being #1 in popular culture references is a badge of honor for TOS. Most of those references pretty much depend on the audience not having any respect for the show or its fans.

 

[Warped9]

^^ I don't think that's quite right. Popular references aren't always a sign of ridicule. They can also be a measure of fondness. We can laugh at some things because deep down we really do like them and they remind us of when they made us feel good.

We can hear the fight music of "Amok Time" and smile (like we do in Futurama) because it is appropriate and we remember how exciting and fun it was to watch.

Futurama is a good example because the numerous references to TOS are indeed intended as tributes of fondness.

 

[Sept17th]

Because it was first, it created all the magic the rest are based on, the first weekly space opera with a cast/characters almost larger than life. The new release with CGI is helping to bring people back to it again and exposing others who have been too young in the past to get it.

My wife and I have a new Sunday night tradition watching TOS playing Shirtless Shat and Kirk Hook-Up drinking games. My wife used to watch Battlestar Galactica with me in the eighties when we where teens dating but that was just to hang with me. Now with TOS and episodes of Farscape she is becoming quite the geek.

 

[DImbag]

OK dudes I am glad to be here and I will tell you why. This weekend my brother and me went to a garge sale and they had a hole bag full of tapes of Star Trek and it was all for like 5 bucks so we bought em and watched em all. There are 12 all together.

Welp, first I thought it was kinda fucken retarded and stupid, to be honest. But then we saw some better ones and I got into it. One of em we watched twice, the one with the doctor and his old girlfriend who turned out to be a monster. The effects were really bad but this was a long time ago remember so they didn't know how to do em right yet. Another had this dude with a giant hand grab the spaceship and turned out he was some faggy god who fucken cried in the end. I would of shot him.

I have some questions: one: are they lost in space or do they know where they are? My stupid brother says they are lost. I say he's a fucken idiot cause one show has the captain calling his boss. two: are there more episodes than the 12 I have and where can I find them. Keep in mind I live with my Gram whose kind of poor and we dont have DVD video, only tape.

I have read this therad and learned a lot dudes, I am not sure I am gonna like the other shows yet. Also can we call it Star Trek and not Tos 'cause that is what the box calls it.

 

[Warped9]

^^ There are 79 episodes in all and one of them is a two-parter. Actually there are 80 if you include the originally unaired first pilot.

 

[DImbag]

Holy shit dude I better start hittin more garge sales.

 

[A beaker full of death]

Welp, first I thought it was kinda fucken retarded and stupid, to be honest. But then we saw some better ones and I got into it. One of em we watched twice, the one with the doctor and his old girlfriend who turned out to be a monster. The effects were really bad but this was a long time ago remember so they didn't know how to do em right yet. Another had this dude with a giant hand grab the spaceship and turned out he was some faggy god who fucken cried in the end. I would of shot him.

I have some questions: one: are they lost in space or do they know where they are? My stupid brother says they are lost. I say he's a fucken idiot cause one show has the captain calling his boss.

Funny. It doesn't feel like April.

 

[Keith1701]

Because the main characters are well defined and well cast, and the dynamic between them is perfect for expressing internal conflicts as external events.

Because the writing is good. It doesn't get lost in pointless lingo.

Because it's got dramatic music.

Because it's often fun.

I agree......

 

[alicelouise]

I'm replying to the initial post. Many of the series were able to add interesting tangents. It all comes down to this...if not for TOS there wouldn't have been the other 4 series.

TNG and VOY were PC and yuppified for lack of a better term. In TOS Capt Kirk had to make hard choices(City on the Edge of Forever). As far as enforcing Fed laws, he was it. TNG always had a plot device where they could wrap things up and feel good about themselves. TOS you weren't sure. Think of "A Private Little War". Kirk was in a Triage situation. Picard or Janeway never were there. This is why DS9 emerges as a superior series. However, DS9 is the figurative Venus from the forehead of the TOS Zeus.

As for Enterprise, it had good moments, notably the Xindi and Vulcan Reformation story arcs. I had always liked the Vulcans, but here they are a smug and patronizing people. Makes you think the Romulans at least might hoist an ale with you if the don't kill you first.

 

[Joshua Howard]

No doubt in our culture TOS bears some weight; I was raised in a family that didn't really have any interest in that sort of thing, but Star Trek phrases such as "Beam me up, Scotty" and various references to Spock are nevertheless something that I remember distinctly.

The TOS crew has a very amiable chemistry; each member displays his or her unique tendencies - Kirk is obviously human, but exercises authority as a counterweight to his overcoming emotions; Spock is memorable because he exercises logic - but the subtle element of humanity which plays as an undertone add an even more valuable touch of gravity. Mcoy with his tendency to say exactly what he's thinking adds a pleasant touch of humor that can make almost any situation laughable.

I personally think that Star Trek - regardless of it's orientation - is part of the same principle and driving idea. To lift one part above the other is not beneficial to the whole; I think that some people view TNG and the others in the modern Star Trek collection as "invaders" upon TOS, while others feel that TOS is the "outdated" tail that follows a new generation of Sci-Fi. Realistically, the way you see Star Trek is going to depend on whether you see a TV show, or if you actually - in some respect - value Star Trek as something with more weight.

To the "cult following" of Star Trek who values it's Canon like a Bible, I think every addition to the Trek legacy is a welcome one; to the TV watching crowd that doesn't particularly care, it's all about what you feel like watching - nothing more.

 

[Red Ranger]

No doubt in our culture TOS bears some weight; I was raised in a family that didn't really have any interest in that sort of thing, but Star Trek phrases such as "Beam me up, Scotty" and various references to Spock are nevertheless something that I remember distinctly.

The TOS crew has a very amiable chemistry; each member displays his or her unique tendencies - Kirk is obviously human, but exercises authority as a counterweight to his overcoming emotions; Spock is memorable because he exercises logic - but the subtle element of humanity which plays as an undertone add an even more valuable touch of gravity. Mcoy with his tendency to say exactly what he's thinking adds a pleasant touch of humor that can make almost any situation laughable.

I personally think that Star Trek - regardless of it's orientation - is part of the same principle and driving idea. To lift one part above the other is not beneficial to the whole; I think that some people view TNG and the others in the modern Star Trek collection as "invaders" upon TOS, while others feel that TOS is the "outdated" tail that follows a new generation of Sci-Fi. Realistically, the way you see Star Trek is going to depend on whether you see a TV show, or if you actually - in some respect - value Star Trek as something with more weight.

To the "cult following" of Star Trek who values it's Canon like a Bible, I think every addition to the Trek legacy is a welcome one; to the TV watching crowd that doesn't particularly care, it's all about what you feel like watching - nothing more.

Joshua:

I like your comments. They accurately and professionally sum up TOS's appeal. And I also found your comments on the TOS camp vs. the TNG and beyond camp insightful.

Your remarks were also free of the usual grandstanding engaged in by proponents of the original versus the modern era of ST, and vice versa. I feel your post has been the most productive of them all. Thanks.

Red Ranger

 

[Red Ranger]

Holy shit dude I better start hittin more garge sales.

Or you could go to the site I'm posting below, DImbag:

http://www.cbs.com/classics/star_trek/video/video.php?cid=619493214&cc=0

It has nearly all the eps of the three seasons of TOS. You can watch them on your computer. And you won't have to sift through piles of garage sale crap to find them! Enjoy them.

Red Ranger

 

[jimbtnp2]

Over the years (but not so much recently) I find that anyone who watches the Star Trek shows prefers the newer shows to the old ones, and specifically STNG.

You might want to go up one level - to the "Main Bridge" and look where the most threads and postings are. Doesn't seem to reflect what you are saying here.

STNG brought so many fans into the fold specifically because it said we could be better, not perfected, just better, and their attitudes to situations were not two-dimensional, which often happened on TOS.

It apparantly didn't bring enough - the Franchise is dying hence the reboot. Check it out:
http://trekmovie.com/2008/05/02/future-of-star-trek-the-experience-in-doubt/



You give an excellent example. Spock was alive denying and dealing with feelings like we all do. Data was a robot with an emotion chip. Lots I can relate to there - NOT.

Picard was noble like Kirk, but made more of an attempt to think things through, and was a multi-faceted commander. Riker was meant to be a Kirk-like character, but quickly showed the new attitude of STNG, he adapted quickly to new situations and thought on his feet instead of wrestling a problem to fit his inclinations. He still managed to get most of the girls somehow. I think lots of people can relate to Worf...someone who doesn't always seem to belong. Needless to say a Klingon on the bridge is a 180 from TOS, and in itself demonstrates the progress of the show.

Picard, Riker, Troi = BORING. Hollow, passionless, poorly constructed meaningless character whom nobody gave a crap about.

Speaking for myself, I don't generally have to empathize or relate to characters. I don't really do that with fiction. I don't ever feel a need to be any of them, but themes, writing and meaningfulness interest me, and all the Trek shows have that to some degree.

Good for you. But I find being preached to and entertainment that is very cerebral also very boring. It seems like I am not the only one either. Please try to remember that if you want someone to skip a football game in favor of watching Star Trek - they'll have to make it more entertaining and exciting than the football game. TNG wasn't. Its even tougher when it comes to shelling out $10 to see a movie. It better entertain and effect our emotions to get us to watch it.

I gotta agree with that, I mean if youcan't relate in some way, well what's the point of exploring the 'human condition'

 

[maryh]

I can't relate to 3 sexes but I can relate to peace and harmony - I just don't like watching it because nothing happens!! I prefer tension, character flaws, excitement, adventure, fear, romance, anger, wit, playfulness, clever dialog etc. in my TV shows. I can't say tolerance was the basic tenet of ST. Kirk & Co judged all the time and did not tolerate lots of things. Sounds like "This Side of Paradise". Peace and harmony got boring awfully fast that even they rejected it.

It looks like Abrams is doing what I want in ST:


J.J. Abrams: ........ What finally pushed me over the edge to direct and not just produce Star Trek was my wife, Katie's, reaction. She loved the characters. She confirmed my deep suspicions that I should direct this movie. The story is dramatic and funny and emotional and romantic and full of adventure........

From an interview at:
http://io9.com/349165/jj-abrams-says-trek-will-avoid-greenscreen-fakeness

These are the characteristics that made TOS the best.

 

[RobertScorpio]

I ramble around the point a bit, but here are my thoughts.

It's Number One for me because it never gets too bogged down with itself. All the later shows seemed to take themselves, and the universe they take place in, too seriously. TOS was always fun, and the characters reflected that. It never got stuck on techno-babble, and the characters seemed like real people.

I enjoy TNG, mainly because I grew up with it, remember seeing "All Good Things" when I was eight and being floored by how awesome an ending TNG had, and always watched re-runs on TNN/Spike. That said, I can't really watch about half the episodes anymore for one reason or another. Mainly because it's so sterile and lacking in 'Adventure' so often.

DS9 was cool, but not my cup of tea. I'll buy the DVD sets sometime and see if I like it better now. The characters are more realistic again.

Voyager is terrible, and aside from maybe five episodes, I hate everything about it.

I do enjoy Enterprise, but more as a lark than an actual show. Half the reason I keep up with re-runs on Sci-Fi is to see what sort of references to the later shows they throw in. Plus, my aunt just randomly bought me season four, and I really enjoy the mirror universe episodes, mainly because I dig seeing the old sets and uniforms re-done. I don't really LIKE Enterprise, but it's not too bad.

A lot of great reasons in this thread..I didn't know so many responded, but yours' follows a running thread I think...it was just fun to watch and didn't get bogged down by soap opera antics and depressing storyline..THOUGH..I do love that part of DS9...

In my mind TOS and DS9 are the ONLY orignial TREK shows ever made...the rest were just clones of TOS...IMO. And none of the clones had Shatner and Nimoy and De Kelly..simple as that..

Rob
Scorpio