Why is the new film doing so terribly outside the US..???

[Blue_Trek]

Oh, that's nice for you that you have friends in Europe and that means you think you know all of Europe's thoughts.

Seriously, Star Trek makes Nemesis look like a well-crafted, coherent story, while it's a plot-hole-ridden pile of junk.

Again that is YOUR opinion, Nemesis bombed at every level.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_trek_nemesis/?name_order=asc
36 vs 95 score these two movies are hardly in the same league.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=startrek10.htm
Made no money comparatively.

http://www.metacritic.com/video/titles/startreknemesis?q=nemesis
50 score Very Average movie

I liked Nemesis, but many others didn't sadly, nothing can beat success and Star Trek XI has it, domestically and around the world, Nemesis only did just over $24 million around the rest of the world, that is by any standard an absolute epic failure, that doomed the movie series, to not be able to continue down the same old path for Trek anymore.

This new Trek formula really works, sorry you hate it, but you need to move on.

 

[Roald]

Anyone who states: "Seriously, Star Trek makes Nemesis look like a well-crafted, coherent story, while it's a plot-hole-ridden pile of junk" is obviously living in another dimension.

I think I know who 3D Master is. He's a paria in a Dutch ST forum, and apparantly he's on the verge to be one here too.

I think it sucks that a thread about the international box office has been misused by 3D Master to ventilate his, no offence, rather pathetic opinions.

 

[pah2602]

Just because people think something is so, doesn't mean it is so.

LMAO.

You mean like EVERYTHING you've said in this thread.

 

[M'Sharak]

And exactly what has that got to do with my post?

Gee, and I thought your point all the way back here, where you entered the thread:


...was to insult the intelligence of American audiences. That is what you were doing there.

Since then, however, you've narrowed it down insulting individual TrekBBS members by stating that if they don't see things the way you (and, supposedly, the author of the review to which you link) do, then they must not possess a functioning brain, after which you have the audacity to claim that you are not insulting them, but rather citing "cold, hard facts" (you really like that phrase, don't you? It sounds kind of film noir tough guy, or something) which are no more than the opinions given in the review and in your posts -- i.e., not really facts. That's called circular reasoning, and it's a cheat.

You claim to employ logic:

...but only as a means of implying or inferring that the person to whom your reply is directed is incapable of employing logic -- that they are not in possession of a functioning mind:






Simple basic elementary logic? No.

All of this is circular reasoning, sprinkled liberally with insults (some of which I've placed in bold, so you may see which they are.) You can claim opinions are "cold, hard facts" or "cold, hard truth" from now until the cows come home and it will never cause them to become facts or truth, but to insult others because they do not take your word for it is inflammatory and it is offensive, no matter how many times you insist that it is not.

You can pretend that you're talking about the review, but again, your first post (which I've quoted above) indicates otherwise, and very few of your subsequent posts have been free of insult and condescension. This is the same pattern you've exhibited in numerous threads in this forum and it needs to stop.

Discuss or don't discuss -- that will be up to you -- but the surly and boorish behavior and the constant stream of insults and insinuations of lesser intelligence toward other posters need to go from your posts in this forum and they need to go now. These may be deemed appropriate where you come from (though I find that difficult to believe) and no one would bat an eye if you were to use them in TNZ, but they are not appropriate here and they will stop.

Brilliant, he we go again.

"No, waaah, plot holes don't diminish a movie! And if you say so, and if you say that if you do your mind isn't functioning properly, you're being inflammatory! wwaaaah."

There's no circular reasoning about knowing the simplistic truth that plot holes diminish a movie. And the results if you can't grasp this simple truth. If you think making this statement is inflammatory you must be one of those who can't grasp the unamaginably simple fact that bad things in a movie make a movie less good aka diminish a movie.

There's not a problem with my statement, and there's nothing inflammatory about it. However, if this utterly simplistic, basic elementary inflames you, there's a problem with you.

And exactly what has that got to do with my post?

You have way too much time on your hands, really
And what does a "California Chronicle" review have to do with any country outside the US???
What makes you an expert of the opinions of people in Europe or Asia etc.?

I have friends in Great Britain, Ireland, Spain, Australia, Netherlands and Greece (besides US and Canada) and as far as I can tell those who watched the new Star Trek liked it although none of them are fans. And they told me they like it at least partly because you don't need to know Star Trek at all to understand the movie, so Abrams did something right here.
But many of my friends refused to watch it at all because "Duh. It's Star Trek. Pimply fanboys and all. Not interested."

Oh, that's nice for you that you have friends in Europe and that means you think you know all of Europe's thoughts.

I'm from the Netherlands.

Toodles.

You should have quit, but you carried right on with more of the same insulting and disruptive manner. Insulting other posters is called flaming, and it is against board rules. You now have a warning for it. Comments to PM.

 

[Dane_Whitman]

Dutch ST forum

I severely dislike that forum, people love to whine there. I tried to post there a couple of times some years ago, but I found very little other than negativity. And that's coming from someone who was here for the Voyager Forum Wars.

 

[Roald]

Dutch ST forum

I severely dislike that forum, people love to whine there. I tried to post there a couple of times some years ago, but I found very little other than negativity. And that's coming from someone who was here for the Voyager Forum Wars.

Totally agree with you. The forum is a total disgrace. This forum has always been a much better place for discussions and repect, and as one of this forums oldest members (even though I'm far from a frequent poster) I can truely tell.

 

[3D Master]

Anyone who states: "Seriously, Star Trek makes Nemesis look like a well-crafted, coherent story, while it's a plot-hole-ridden pile of junk" is obviously living in another dimension.

No, I'm not. And when I'm finished with my review of XI I will post and it will show it. It's just that it requires virtually every scene to be discussed, because virtually every scene in some way flawed, inconsistent with the rest of the movie, riddled with multiple plothoes, or just plain disgusting. It takes a while to write it all down.

I think I know who 3D Master is. He's a paria in a Dutch ST forum, and apparantly he's on the verge to be one here too.

I'm not on any Dutch ST forum, I don't even know any Dutch ST forum.

I think it sucks that a thread about the international box office has been misused by 3D Master to ventilate his, no offence, rather pathetic opinions.

Except that it wasn't misused, but eh. The question was why it the box office overseas was so much less then in the US; I gave a possible answer. If you don't want to hear some possible answers; don't ask the question.

 

[stonester1]

No, I'm not. And when I'm finished with my review of XI I will post and it will show it.

Dude, you REALLY need to get over yourself. Especially if you think you are going to have some fresh revelation no one has thought of before.

You are just going to have a long, repetitive diatribe that's going to repeat all of which has been already been said.

People will

and

a couple will

Maybe a few will

But mostly, it will not change the fact that the vast majority LOVE/like this movie, it is a a colossal hit, and it has saved Star Trek.

You're welcome.

 

[3D Master]

No, I'm not. And when I'm finished with my review of XI I will post and it will show it.

Dude, you REALLY need to get over yourself. Especially if you think you are going to have some fresh revelation no one has thought of before.

You are just going to have a long, repetitive diatribe that's going to repeat all of which has been already been said.

People will

and

a couple will

Maybe a few will

But mostly, it will not change the fact that the vast majority LOVE/like this movie, it is a a colossal hit, and it has saved Star Trek.

You're welcome.

Nope, there's stuff in this review, that's never been seen before, at all.

 

[stonester1]

Talk is cheap, dude.

And I'm telling you, if you believe your review is going to turn it all around, you are in for a

 

[flemm]

Yes, yes, the plot was weak and full of holes, I think this has been established. So has the strength of the characterization, as well as the overall fun and excitement of the film.

What I think is helpful is to understand this movie as a mere episode in the decades-long series that is the Trek franchise. If I were watching an episode of a Trek television series, and I described it as above, what would my reaction be? Many times when watching Trek shows that I thoroughly enjoy, I have said something equivalent to myself: "That episode was a lot of fun, with some great character moments, plot was pretty weak and full of holes." And then I moved on and eagerly awaited the next episode to see what was in store.

Why is watching this movie any different? Enjoy it for what it is, critique its flaws in a reasonable manner, be happy it's a hit, eagerly anticipate the next installment. What am I missing?

 

[Roald]

Anyone who states: "Seriously, Star Trek makes Nemesis look like a well-crafted, coherent story, while it's a plot-hole-ridden pile of junk" is obviously living in another dimension.

No, I'm not. And when I'm finished with my review of XI I will post and it will show it. It's just that it requires virtually every scene to be discussed, because virtually every scene in some way flawed, inconsistent with the rest of the movie, riddled with multiple plothoes, or just plain disgusting. It takes a while to write it all down.

I think I know who 3D Master is. He's a paria in a Dutch ST forum, and apparantly he's on the verge to be one here too.

I'm not on any Dutch ST forum, I don't even know any Dutch ST forum.

I think it sucks that a thread about the international box office has been misused by 3D Master to ventilate his, no offence, rather pathetic opinions.

Except that it wasn't misused, but eh. The question was why it the box office overseas was so much less then in the US; I gave a possible answer. If you don't want to hear some possible answers; don't ask the question.

I have absolutely no desire to get into a flaming debate. You say you're preparing this MASSIVE review of the film that will uncover 'plotholes' and all, but in all fairness, we get it now honey, YOU-DON'T-LIKE-THIS-FILM....
Don't take this the wrong way, you're entitled to. People were very critical of TESB back in '80, or Beethoven's 9th hundreds of years ago. The problem is with the WAY you ventilate your opinion.

But again, let's just get along I suppose.

 

[Australis]

I await this so-called review wirth much skepticism

 

[Captain Fine]

I just hope this thread doesn't get locked, because I think it's a very valid discussion (why STXI and ST in general doesn't do well outside of the US and Canada, not if the movie sucked or not).

I know people think "USS" sounds very American, but as a Canadian, I've always loved the sound of it. HMCS is kinda lame :P

 

[Lynn Minmay]

Stop feeding the trolls....Nemesis was SHIET.

 

[I am not Spock]

I have lived in England and Australia, and Trek always seemed more popular in the UK than it does in the Antipodes. In Oz, they showed first run DS9, ENT, and VOY at 12am, for god's sake.

Maybe people in some parts of the world only think they dislike Trek because they haven't had much media exposure to it.

Also, Australia has a much smaller population than the UK or the USA. That could be a factor.

 

[Captain Fine]

I have lived in England and Australia, and Trek always seemed more popular in the UK than it does in the Antipodes. In Oz, they showed first run DS9, ENT, and VOY at 12am, for god's sake.

Maybe people in some parts of the world only think they dislike Trek because they haven't had much media exposure to it.

Also, Australia has a much smaller population than the UK or the USA. That could be a factor.

I don't see what population would have to do with it. Canada's got a relatively small population as well (30 million) yet Star Trek was very popular here. See the thread in Trek Lit about Chapters stores and Star Trek books versus the bookstores in the US. I'd say ST is more popular in Canada than in the US. But it's hard to say really.

 

[Australis]

Trek is popualr in Oz, only the TV station that has the broadcast rights doesn't get it. It's run by sports-fixated boofheads for sports-fixated boofheads. Back in the day, I was once told, the owner, Kerry Packer liked trek, but didn't let it get in the way of making a dollar. Now he's died, and his son's sold the station off to build a big casino. Make of that what you will. My prediction - the Packer fortune gone in two generations.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Ah, so plotholes, bullshit characterization, assholes for a main character, and on and on and on, does not a diminish a movie to you?

I seem to recall huge "plotholes, bullshit characterization, assholes for a main character" as people's reasons for hating ST:TMP in 1979. I liked that too!

I believe I said something about functional mind, but... it doesn't really seem necessary; the post rather speaks for itself.

Sorry, I don't understand this part of your post. My mind must be non functional.

 

[Orac Zen]

No, I'm not. And when I'm finished with my review of XI I will post and it will show it.

Do you intend to post this review here at TBBS? If so, why?

Almost every post you make in this forum - and elsewhere - indicates that you have little or no respect for the posters here. You belittle, you patronise, you condescend. You have no qualms about questioning the intelligence of anyone who doesn't see things your way. So why bother posting your critique of the movie here? (Never mind all the other, usually verbose, almost always condescending stuff you post.) Do you imagine that anyone who reads your review will recant their view of the movie? That the scales will fall from their eyes and they will see that you, 3D Master, is right and all those who enjoyed this movie - faults and all - are wrong?

Why on earth does it matter to you what people think of the movie? Why does it matter that so many people enjoyed it while you didn't? Why do you find it necessary to constantly criticise and belittle and question the intellect of people on an internet BBS who don't agree with you about a movie??

I'm not being sarcastic. I'm genuinely curious as to why you devote so much time to challenging the views of a group of people for whom you clearly have little or no respect.


Of course, this request and my post in general has nothing to do with the topic, unfortunately. My apologies to the OP, fellow posters and staff for that. I'll address the point of the thread in another post at another time.