Why is Star Trek so bad with women characters?

[Whizkid]

Why is Star Trek so bad with women characters?

(Except the one character from everything who can match Kirk...Oh wouldn't you say? ... Commander/Major Kira Nerys. The ONE woman Star Trek accidentally did right.)

First, Ensign Sito. (Excellent episode. TNG: Lower Decks. Patrick Stewart being an ass)

And then for no problem of her own, Commander Ro. (Wha? Why?)

I think ST has a basic James Bond problem. And they've not been able to figure out their Eva Green.

I hope they will soon.

Otherwise what will I show my grandchildren?

My wife already hates me because I love Silo (Rebecca Ferguson.) I'm thinking of substituting her. B4 she does me. Find me the Major! I'm not Dukat or Adami. I'm not even Sisko. Just get me the Commander! I promise I won't even complain.

As O'Brien might have said: shite!

______


So, my question is: wtf!

 

[Tosk]

If you go into detail about what you don't like specifically about Trek's female characters, someone might agree, disagree, or argue for the defense.

 

[somebuddyX]

Kira's pretty unique for characters across all genders though. She also had the benefit of being on DS9, both the show and the station, with that backstory and written by those people under the direction of Ira Behr. They dug into character more but that was also a direct response for DS9 by the creatives in response to TNG, and even TNG stood on the shoulders of TOS.
I take issue with a lot of this basic conceit. What's the metric?
Was Uhura bad? Or is she was unexplored was she explored about as much as the other foursome?
Were Saavik, Valeris and Ilia bad?
Were Doc Crusher and Troi bad? They weren't Kira because they were more in the caregiving background. If Tasha has stayed she would have benefitted from Michael Piller exploring more character focus in Season 3 but
Are Janeway, Torres, Seven and Kes bad because they weren't written like DS9 or TNG characters? I think Seven had a lot of exploration and is a fan favourite and arguably everyone on that show suffered male or female.
Hoshi and T'Pol?
Nu-Uhura?
Burnham and the new characters.
Maybe just show your grandkids the shows with an open mind and let them make up their own minds.

 

[Whizkid]

Until Kira, one character? Maybe I'm blind. But if DISCO is the answer, I'd be happy to be blind.

 

[at Quark's]

A very general answer would be that Trek is 'traditional' science fiction with a long franchise history, and development of female characters isn't necessarily generally a strong suit of that genre (though there are of course many exceptions).

For any more specific discussion, I agree with @Tosk.

 

[Whizkid]

Did you actually say Troi? The idiot? "Oh Sir! I'm feeling all the feelings Sir! Please notice my low cut blouse! Gene wanted me to have three breasts. Couldn't you do with two somehow?"

Who Guinan in a second proved redundant?

 

[Whizkid]

Saavik I love. I was talking about main characters though.

 

[Whizkid]

A very general answer would be that Trek is 'traditional' science fiction with a long franchise history, and development of female characters isn't necessarily generally a strong suit of that genre (though there are of course many exceptions).

For any more specific discussion, I agree with @Tosk.

Do you think I don't like Trek? Is that why I'm here?

 

[at Quark's]

Do you think I don't like Trek? Is that why I'm here?

Nope. What part of my reply would make you think that?

Also, I will not respond to any further posts with a polemic undercurrent.

 

[Whizkid]

I was not trying to be polemic Sir. I was only trying to state the obvious (as Data would have said.)

We are a dying breed Sir. Everything said and done, PIC was still generational. My children laughed at me when I showed them "The City..."

I do not know what to say.

(See how I do not use contractions?)

My children would never understand.

 

[Whizkid]

Perhaps you did

If you go into detail about what you don't like specifically about Trek's female characters, someone might agree, disagree, or argue for the defense.

Fascinating!
I'm not trying to be woke. It's my undying curiosity that makes me ask this question.

 

[Tosk]

I get the distinct impression you did not actually read what I wrote.

 

[Whizkid]

Sir. I did. I would not be here otherwise.

My point, belaboured as it is, ST does not know its women. My favourite character, as I suppose all of yours, even better than Kirk (Corobomite Maneuver.) A simple story about challenges of living.

It's Star Trek all right.

Perhaps you did

Fascinating!
I'm not trying to be woke. It's my undying curiosity that makes me ask this question.

 

[1001001]

Okay, maybe take a deep breath.

Think about your responses before posting multiple times in a row, including responding to yourself.

There's a valid topic here (even though I don't agree), but it's getting buried by weirdness.

I also edited the title to be more descriptive.

 

[BillJ]

For a long time, science fiction was seen as being for younger males, the writing of female characters reflects that.

 

[at Quark's]

For a long time, science fiction was seen as being for younger males, the writing of female characters reflects that.

Yeah, right.

Next thing you're going to try to convince me is that Seven's catsuit wasn't strictly necessary for worldbuilding and in-universe reasons and nothing else?

I was not trying to be polemic Sir. I was only trying to state the obvious (as Data would have said.)

In that case, my apologies in return for not interpreting what you wrote in the way you meant it.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Why is Star Trek so bad with women characters?

(Except the one character from everything who can match Kirk...Oh wouldn't you say? ... Commander/Major Kira Nerys. The ONE woman Star Trek accidentally did right.)

First, Ensign Sito. (Excellent episode. TNG: Lower Decks. Patrick Stewart being an ass)

And then for no problem of her own, Commander Ro. (Wha? Why?)

I think ST has a basic James Bond problem. And they've not been able to figure out their Eva Green.

I hope they will soon.

Otherwise what will I show my grandchildren?

My wife already hates me because I love Silo (Rebecca Ferguson.) I'm thinking of substituting her. B4 she does me. Find me the Major! I'm not Dukat or Adami. I'm not even Sisko. Just get me the Commander! I promise I won't even complain.

As O'Brien might have said: shite!

______


So, my question is: wtf!

Decaf

 

[Lord Garth]

'60s, '70s, and '80s Star Trek: It was a product of its time. What else is there to say? The way it depicted women was no better or worse than most of what I've seen from back then.

Post-'80s/Pre-DSC Star Trek: Also a product of its time. Women get better representation, but how it's presented and how often was mixed and uneven. The primary audience was intended to be men.

New Trek: I don't have a problem with how women have been depicted from Discovery onward. Whatever problems there may have been, this isn't one of them.

 

[1001001]

'60s, '70s, and '80s Star Trek: It was a product of its time. What else is there to say? The way it depicted women was no better or worse than most of what I've seen from back then.

Post-'80s/Pre-DSC Star Trek: Also a product of its time. Women get better representation, but how it's presented and how often was mixed and uneven. The primary audience was intended to be men.

New Trek: I don't have a problem with how women have been depicted from Discovery onward. Whatever problems there may have been, this isn't one of them.

I definitely agree representation has gotten better over the years, at least that’s how it seems to me.

It may be more up to the female fans to decide that than us.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Part of it was undoubtedly Roddenberry's tendency to think with his privates.

And part of it is undoubtedly a general background level of sexism in our culture.

But it's getting better. Kira was a step in the right direction. And Dax. And Janeway. And Burnham. And Una.