Don't they make it from being dumped by a Star Destroyer to Bespin in no time at all, even though the Hyperdrive was sabotaged?
Why is ship speed only a problem for fans with ST and STiD?
- Thread starter Turd Ferguson
- Start date
Don't they make it from being dumped by a Star Destroyer to Bespin in no time at all, even though the Hyperdrive was sabotaged?
It's worse than that really - they flee Hoth at sub-light speed and into an asteroid belt, which must be in the Hoth system, while Luke powers off to Dagobah and starts training. How long does the Empire wait for them at the asteroid belt? How long are they inside the giant worm? The passage of time is implied by the recruitment of the bounty hunters but Luke is clearly meant to be training for months. They then limp at sub-light to Bespin. So either Bespin is in the same system as Hoth, which it clearly isn't or sub-light in Star Wars isn't really sub-light. It's more that the parallel timelines don't really run parallel, they just appear to otherwise the latter portion of Luke's training would consist of the Falcon limping through yet more empty space for another 6 months while they play Cards Against Roboticism repeatedly...
I think what frustrates me about the new Trek movies is the way the writers feel that everything must happen instantaneously. They do a good job at keeping the pace frenetic but other movies, like the Bourne movies, maintain pacing and drama with a more credible timeline. Why can't the Enterprise travel by map, like every respectable muppet?
What makes it annoying, I think, is that most of the errors in the new movies are just sloppy and not necessary to keep the pacing.
I believe that Orci admitted to this error over on trekmovie.com - saying Scotty should have said he was off the ship for a week. It's really only the trip back to Earth that's an issue, since there are some cuts and it is unclear how much time passes on the way to Kronos. At the travel time given for Warp 8 in "That Which Survives", a 90-light year trip would have been about an hour. All they needed to change was Bones' line of "at least we're moving again" to something that made it seem like an hour or two had passed before Khan reveals that Vengenace would be able to intercept them.
Star Wars gets free pass for using fake science and sloppy scriptwriting because it's "just for fun"...glorified toy commercials....and that's why people (like me) love Star Wars. It's for the child in all of us. ST fans (fairly or unfairly) expect a bit more substance from ST.
STID never really makes it clear just where they are anyway, the border between Federation and Klingon space, or the edge of the Qo'nos system itself, so I question how much thought was really put into that whole bit in the movie.
Having grown up reading articles and autobiographies of the Apollo astronauts, as well as Star Trek, it is a very difficult thing to realize that the science in Trek is not only wrong, but horribly so. As much as I like Star Trek, it has put a lot of assumptions in my head regarding space travel that can only be described as inaccurate, at best.
Speaking for myself, the science is secondary in my enjoyment, but that's me. I love the characters and their dynamics and dilemmas. The rest is minutiae, usually very tasty, but some times cooked too quickly.
As for scientific inaccuracies, here are some of my personal favorites from Star Wars:
-single planetary environments (all forest planet, all water planet, all city planet, and two all desert planets!).
-Instant communication across vast interstellar distances. Anakin is on Tatooine and is talking to the Jedi Council on Coruscant like he's at Dex's.
-Ewoks are dead.
-Asteroids don't work like that.
Ok, that's off the top of my head. I get it-science fiction leans more heavily on the fiction than the science. And you know what? I'm ok with that. Must be something wrong with me.
Speaking for myself, the science is secondary in my enjoyment, but that's me. I love the characters and their dynamics and dilemmas. The rest is minutiae, usually very tasty, but some times cooked too quickly.
As for scientific inaccuracies, here are some of my personal favorites from Star Wars:
-single planetary environments (all forest planet, all water planet, all city planet, and two all desert planets!).
-Instant communication across vast interstellar distances. Anakin is on Tatooine and is talking to the Jedi Council on Coruscant like he's at Dex's.
-Ewoks are dead.
-Asteroids don't work like that.
Ok, that's off the top of my head. I get it-science fiction leans more heavily on the fiction than the science. And you know what? I'm ok with that. Must be something wrong with me.
What do you mean by that?
I took it to mean that the Empire should have slaughtered the Ewoks and not lost to them?
But he lists "Ewoks are dead" as a scientific inaccuracy.
1) Ewoks aren't dead.
2) If the issue is why did the Empire lose to Ewoks as opposed to wiping them out, that's a problem of tactics and military strategy, not science.
So when you said "Ewoks are dead" that was a typo and you meant to say "Ewoks aren't dead"?
Yeah.
But, it's not entirely tactics and military strategy. Armament falls in the realm of science and technology. The point might be that certain types of mismatched engagements, in terms of the available weapons and defenses, make one side losing so far-fetched as to be implausible in a story, with this being one such example.
Perhaps @fireproof78'll answer.
But, it's not entirely tactics and military strategy. Armament falls in the realm of science and technology. The point might be that certain types of mismatched engagements, in terms of the available weapons and defenses, make one side losing so far-fetched as to be implausible in a story, with this being one such example.
Perhaps @fireproof78'll answer.
That would be more clear. Sorry, it was stream of consciousness.
ETA
I tried to link to this but I think I might have messed something up. There was a technical commentary regarding the "Endor Holocaust" (not my name). Here is a summary, but the main thing is the explosion of Death Star II released so much mass and energy that Endor is in big trouble.
Last edited:
Thanks, @fireproof78. I was totally wrong with my supposition as to what it meant. It makes more sense now.
What I was saying is a beef that I have with ROTJ, though. Yeah, it's not exactly in the realm of bad science, but with respect to the technological aspect, I think it ought to be. Lucas wanted to make a Vietnam parallel, but the opposing sides were too far out of proportion to make the analogy reasonable on anything but a kiddie level. I'm not going to delve into why exactly, because that would be too far off-topic (getting into real-world politics, etc.). Moving on....
What I was saying is a beef that I have with ROTJ, though. Yeah, it's not exactly in the realm of bad science, but with respect to the technological aspect, I think it ought to be. Lucas wanted to make a Vietnam parallel, but the opposing sides were too far out of proportion to make the analogy reasonable on anything but a kiddie level. I'm not going to delve into why exactly, because that would be too far off-topic (getting into real-world politics, etc.). Moving on....
To be fair to Lucas, he wanted the Vietnam parallel with the Rebellion vs. the Empire too.
But, yeah, sorry I wasn't exactly clear. I hope that made more sense.
But, yeah, sorry I wasn't exactly clear. I hope that made more sense.
Totally.
Thanks, @fireproof78. I was totally wrong with my supposition as to what it meant. It makes more sense now.
What I was saying is a beef that I have with ROTJ, though. Yeah, it's not exactly in the realm of bad science, but with respect to the technological aspect, I think it ought to be. Lucas wanted to make a Vietnam parallel, but the opposing sides were too far out of proportion to make the analogy reasonable on anything but a kiddie level. I'm not going to delve into why exactly, because that would be too far off-topic (getting into real-world politics, etc.). Moving on....
If they'd have had a planet of wookies instead of ewoks, Return of the Jedi would be regarded as well as the first two movies in my opinion.
A fun story, but doesn't really stand up. If the Death Star was in orbit around Endor then it was obviously a lot smaller than Endor. Plus, being a space station, it was hollow, not a solid body. Plus most of the exploded material that headed toward Endor (less than 50% of the total mass of the Death Star) would burn up on entry. I would accept a nuclear winter type scenario, but the "rain of death" idea doesn't work.
Similar threads
