Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Mr Light, Jan 3, 2014.

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Nemesis

  1. Excellent

    3 vote(s)
    1.6%
  2. Good

    31 vote(s)
    16.5%
  3. Average

    49 vote(s)
    26.1%
  4. Bad

    49 vote(s)
    26.1%
  5. Terrible

    56 vote(s)
    29.8%
  1. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    well the uniforms, sets etc & the fact the actors were exactly the same age..not a couple of years on like they wouldve been had they done Gen for 96 , with maybe TOS cast doing a Trek VII 93/94.

    and i wasn't aware i had any credibility to lose:confused:
     
  2. MrJ

    MrJ Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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  3. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

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    I think another important reason for the dune buggy scene is that it was the only real piece of location shooting in the whole movie (aside from the brief wedding scene). If you cut that out, almost the entire movie takes place on a soundstage and it starts feeling a little small and television-y, like Wrath of Khan does.
     
  4. urbandefault

    urbandefault Commodore Commodore

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    Nemesis just wasn't a good movie. My opinion, they had worn out that cast's welcome by INS (which I like), and were at the point of being too old to do an action movie. At least with TUC, they stated outright that "this crew is due to stand down in three months" or something to that effect.

    Everyone looked old and tired. The script was, well, not that good. Tom Hardy didn't do anything for me in his character. The only other movie I've seen him in is Dark Knight Rises, and in that he sounded to me like a bad imitation of Patrick Stewart.

    The TNG cast should have just hung it up after INS. Again, all my opinion.
     
  5. austen_pierce

    austen_pierce Captain Captain

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    I will watch and re-watch Nemesis for the Scimitar and the space battles. I lament Data's death, while ignoring B4 (Data is NOT coming back). I'll fast forward or skip the Troi-Riker-Perlman scene, while conceding that it does set up the psychic torpedo scene. IMO only Insurrection is worse (just plain boring).
     
  6. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    i think the idea was to do a multi crew cross over film or have a new 'movie crew' after the so so reaction to INS (and after it went beyond the standard 2 years inbetween) but someone wanted it to be a solo TNG movie (berman?) and they had abit of a job getting Stewart back
     
  7. Kelthaz

    Kelthaz Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    SFDebris' review is pretty good too.

    Nemesis was unbelievably terrible. I have issues with some of the other films, but in a "haha, that's bad" sort of way where I shake my head and move on. Nemesis literally made me angry from the stupidity of the film. It's just ... so insultingly stupid in so many ways. It hurts my head just thinking about it.
     
  8. Armored Saint

    Armored Saint Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah and in Nemesis, what's stated is that Riker is finally accepting the captaincy of a starship. It's the end of fifteen years of procrastination. I really like First Contact, but there's a kind of stagnation in TNG movies. Between TWOK and TUC, the main characters are instructorss, then pariahs, heroes, explorers again, etc.
     
  9. cardinal biggles

    cardinal biggles Put your hands in the air like you just don't care Premium Member

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    I think someone mentioned it on the first page, but here's The Facer's annotated Nemesis screenplay, which I found lurking in a dark corner of my hard drive.

    download PDF
     
  10. Richard Baker

    Richard Baker Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think it would have been interesting to have Patrick Stewart play both roles instead of Tom Hardy. No reason to change the script- not only would the whole clone thing be dead on but Stewart could pull it off well.
    The two Dr. Bishops in 'Fringe' show how well two versions of the same man with two different histories could interact...
     
  11. Paul Weaver

    Paul Weaver Commodore Premium Member

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    One of the many lost opportunites.

    Remove the stupid dune buggy
    Remove B4
    Remove the mind-rape stuff
    Redo the dumb "Shinzon spends ages persuading them he's good, then in the next scene they find out the truth"
    Bigger roles for the non-Picard non-Data crew

    For a radical change, they could have done was kill off Picard early in the film, say on buggy planet, and have them encounter his evil twin at Romulus. Have Data die at the end of the film too, as Spiner was far too big for his boots at this point.

    This would have allowed Riker to get the big E after all at the end, Worf as his first officer, the family could then stay together, get rid of the two most expensive characters. For bonus points, find a good way of having Picard come back at the end

    However even a few minor changes in the wedding scene would have been nice
    1) A brief conversation between Guinan to Worf about "Ambassadorial life didn't suit you // no, Alexander is far better at it". Remove the stupid Worf-Hungover part. If OBrien + Bashir can cope with Worf's bachelor party, Worf can cope with Rikers

    2) I'm glad they cut the Wesley-back-in-starfleet line out, but a quick explanation as to why he's in a trek uniform (or just have him in civies)

    The apparent ignoring of previous facts by the writers (Where's Lwaxana, why's worf in uniform, what's Wesley doing,) was fixed in the books, which is great, but should have been in the film. The character assassination of Worf continues after his zit in INS though :(
     
  12. Coloratura

    Coloratura Unsung Aria Premium Member

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    Eh, I only love Worf more in this movie.

    Data: "It appears to be a robotic arm."
    Worf: "...very astute."

    :lol:
     
  13. starburst

    starburst Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I like this idea of the Enterprise crew facing off against their recently deceased Captain but it not really being him.

    A way to bring Picard back could be that whatever they were doing on the planet be it finding B4 (or maybe switch it to Lore) or something else entirely was still orchestrated by Shinzon who set it up to remove his double from the equation but Picard was only kidnapped which the rest of the crew didnt know.

    Or a comment that reveals that the real reason Klingons hate Romulans is that the big social drinkers of the galaxy cant handle Romulan Ale...

    Ive not read those books, how do they explain it?
     
  14. cardinal biggles

    cardinal biggles Put your hands in the air like you just don't care Premium Member

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    I don't remember why Lwaxana wasn't there. Worf decides after a string of events (including a terrorist attack on the Federation embassy on the Klingon Homeworld) that he isn't fit for the role of ambassador, resigns, nominates Alexander to take his place, and gets reinstated in Starfleet. He's supposed to be Riker's first officer on the Titan, but after the events of Nemesis, Picard asks him to stay. As for Wesley, he's still a Traveler, but he shows up to the wedding naked (thinking that this is the Betazoid wedding), so Picard has them beam down some random guy's dress uniform. Most of this comes from the TNG "A Time To..." series, which I can pretty highly recommend.
     
  15. Robert Maxwell

    Robert Maxwell Havin' fun yet? Premium Member

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    Is there anything in this movie that's more out-of-the-blue than Shinzon's decision to destroy Earth?
     
  16. cardinal biggles

    cardinal biggles Put your hands in the air like you just don't care Premium Member

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    Of all the crap in this movie that makes little or no sense, that one certainly does float straight to the top.
     
  17. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    It seemed like an extension of his obsessive hatred for Picard to me. Picard had everything, the humans had everything, Shinzy was raised in a mine by abusive Romulans and freaky Remans and was nothing but a duplicate anyway. The echo wanted to wipe out the voice and everything important to it.
     
  18. slappy

    slappy Commodore Commodore

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    There are many reasons, but I think it's been covered ad nauseum. I think most Trek fans off the street could've fixed it. There was a decent movie in there somewhere, but it's flaws just weighed it down too much.

    1. Shinzon should've been a Romulan. Not a clone. Just a regular old Romulan.

    2. How "Trek" would it have been if Picard were fighting Shinzon to save Romulus? Stopping the genocide of their sworn enemy by risking their lives. That risk, in the end, brings peace between two worlds. Beautiful.

    Instead.....trying to destroy the Earth AGAIN.
     
  19. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    But no one would've cared. That is the problem with Trek movies, people want to see Earth in danger not some fictional place they've never heard of before.
     
  20. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, so stupid of James Cameron to put Pandora in danger. Had it been Earth, the film would have made exactly 2.567 times as much at the box office.