why is "let he who is without sin" so hated?

[TheGodBen]

^^^ Star Trek is written by lefties, so that's not too surprising.

I am a leftie, and I still find these overdone caricatures annoying, especially the way that the CO on ST shows always seems to find something 'admirable' about them. Just given what we see in the ep, this is almost like Lucas's 'heroes on both sides', or Rowling's 'unity between the houses' vagueness.

He wouldn't have seemed like as much of a caricature if the show's basic premise had worked out. This is a quote by Behr from the companion:

The idea was to do a show that would rattle the audience, that would show sexuality and push the envelope about Risa. Once you get past the titillation, is this a lifestyle that people in the 20th century can approve of?

Kids watch this show, and in some markets it airs at five o'clock. That meant we couldn't show skin, so there was no sex. It became a totally asexual show, and once that happened the whole thing got flushed down the toilet because none of it made sense anymore.

If this show had been like it was intended then I would feel some sympathy with the Essentialists. Just imagine a show where the people on Risa are getting wasted on alcohol and narcotics and having orgies. Imagine watching Jadzia and Bashir and Leeta and Quark joining in the fun. I'm a pretty liberal person but even I would have a difficult time acepting that. I still wouldn't side with the Essentialists because I believe that the people on Risa are adults and should be allowed to live their lives as they please, but they wouldn't have seemed like caricatures because I could understand their moral objections to what is happening on Risa.

 

[ClayHefner]

But doesn't this episode show how those objections are stupid in the ST future?
So they have an orgy- this is bound to be something normal on some planet (the rite of separation, to which Worf reacts so harshly goes into that direction, too). For some people today, WORF would be acting immorally, too, because he sleeps with a woman he isn't married to.
So the Feddies get drunk on their holidays- Klingons get mindlessly drunk every other day- including at work. How would that have worked without being overly anthropocentric and preachy?

I can't imagine anything even remotely suitable for a TV show that could credibly challenge some Feddie's ethical views.
That's why I think that depicting the essentialists and as dense morons and Worf acting stupidly was the way to go.

"You are endulging yourselves too much while a war is going on/about to begin" is the only thing that could work imo, and that's how it was done in the episode.
Maybe they could have referenced some colonialization phase when poor Fed settlers had to fight for survival or something. Anything that would give some kind of background for their views.

I can't see how sex- no matter how extreme they would have done it- be suited for a serious comment on Federation people and ethics in a universe full of diverse cultures. Maybe someone here has an idea how that could have worked.

An interesting way to handle it may have been if the essentialists had been native Risians, who see their original culture and lifestyle destroyed.

 

[Sheliak]

Nobody messes with Risa, that's why. It's like tinkering with the canon, that really peeves people.

Essentialists on Earth? That could be made into a movie. Bad Founders vs Good Founders.

 

[TheGodBen]

But doesn't this episode show how those objections are stupid in the ST future?
So they have an orgy- this is bound to be something normal on some planet (the rite of separation, to which Worf reacts so harshly goes into that direction, too). For some people today, WORF would be acting immorally, too, because he sleeps with a woman he isn't married to.
So the Feddies get drunk on their holidays- Klingons get mindlessly drunk every other day- including at work. How would that have worked without being overly anthropocentric and preachy?

I can't imagine anything even remotely suitable for a TV show that could credibly challenge some Feddie's ethical views.
That's why I think that depicting the essentialists and as dense morons and Worf acting stupidly was the way to go.

"You are endulging yourselves too much while a war is going on/about to begin" is the only thing that could work imo, and that's how it was done in the episode.
Maybe they could have referenced some colonialization phase when poor Fed settlers had to fight for survival or something. Anything that would give some kind of background for their views.

I can't see how sex- no matter how extreme they would have done it- be suited for a serious comment on Federation people and ethics in a universe full of diverse cultures. Maybe someone here has an idea how that could have worked.

An interesting way to handle it may have been if the essentialists had been native Risians, who see their original culture and lifestyle destroyed.

I agree that it should have been native Risians that were protesting, that would have been more interesting.

IDIC is great in concept, but there is always going to be some people who will want to put limits on it. America is founded on the principles of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but you had better not want to marry another man because that's just gross. France is based on liberty, fraternity and equality, but don't you go trying to be in a polygamous relationship because that harms society.

Any society that is open to freedom and cultural diversity is always going to a section of that society trying to stop some of the things which they find to be immoral. Sometimes they are a majority, sometimes they are a minority, and sometimes they are a lone voice crying out in the wind, but they are always going to be there.

Had the episode been done the way the writers wanted then the Essentialists might have held the majority opinion of the viewers. Since the episode was done so badly then they just came out of it looking like uptight caricatures.

 

[ClayHefner]

Had the episode been done the way the writers wanted then the Essentialists might have held the majority opinion of the viewers. Since the episode was done so badly then they just came out of it looking like uptight caricatures.

Yeah, the only way to beef up the show would have been to add depth to the essentialists or make them Risians.
I'm still wondering if the writers may think doing this episode right is impossible.
I mean it WAS understandable why Worf freaked out- Leeta wasn't actually sleeping with the massage dude, but if I saw someone do that to some friend's girl, I would wonder, too. Same with Arandus and Dax and that clay...whatever thingy.
I don't believe they would actually have Arandus and Jadzia start an affair or do some weird ambiguous alien sex stuff and portray that as borderline unacceptable (except to Worf), because it would just be Dax' and Worf's problem. At most it would be a comment on Dax, which is pretty peculiar anyway.
We already know that faith in relationships still exists and not everyone in the Federation goes to those pleasure planet (and how could they sell it to us that there would actually be Biilions of people just going there seeking sex with random people).
And if they had made the Bashir/Leeta(/Quark?!) stuff more explicit, what more would that have achieved? We know Bashir and Quark and Leeta actually had sex with random people, though we don't see it.
What kind of sex stuff would it take to make us side with people who want to shut down Risa? 24/7 Orgies on the streets? Sex with weird alien animals?
An Orgy? really?

 

[TheGodBen]

Seeing Quark naked would certainly make me side with the Essentialists. I'd side with anybody who would force him to put his clothes back on.

You're right, the episode would probably never work, but at least they were trying something new. The only other time I can remember Trek trying something like this was the Edo in TNG season 1. That episode is only remembered because it is the episode where we nearly managed to get rid of Wesley, alas it was not to be.

 

[Gojirob]

Seeing Quark naked would certainly make me side with the Essentialists. I'd side with anybody who would force him to put his clothes back on.

You're right, the episode would probably never work, but at least they were trying something new. The only other time I can remember Trek trying something like this was the Edo in TNG season 1. That episode is only remembered because it is the episode where we nearly managed to get rid of Wesley, alas it was not to be.

The way to get rid of Wes is not an alien 'God' and his dopey followers, nor The Traveller, nor even Locarno. Wes was the solution kid, so have one of his genius miracle solutions literally blow up in his face.

Didn't Trek also try this with the 'no-warp' twins on S7 TNG whose sage advice was retconned faster than transwarp?

 

[FalTorPan]

This episode is worthwhile for one reason -- seeing Terry Farrell in a swimsuit.