Why Is It Fashionable to Insult TOS?

[Kirk1980]

It's getting bad when even people who claim to be fans are slagging off on the old show. And what gets tossed about most often is 'cheapness of the sets' and 'hammy acting' and all that....

I just have to ask... are we all watching the same show? I saw a good show with interesting characters and never paid attention to the 'cost' of everything.

I'd go on but...I'd rather let other people sound off.

 

[Vance]

Because it shadows over anything 'new and cool'. It's a standard that most of Trek has since failed (to varying degrees) to live up to, and the guys who came in later (or are coming in now) resent its existence for that reason alone.

No new Trek, ever, will be as big as the Original Series. That makes the 'haters' (though I loathe using the term) cry at night.

 

[Ward Fowler]

You're right, it's a problem. I'm afraid that the population as a whole is getting more superficial than it used to be. Story is king and TOS often told a helluva story. A story can be interesting if its just two people sitting at a table. You don't need great effects to tell a great story.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Kids these days go no respect for their elders. NONE!

Buncha no good punks.....GET OFFA MY LAWN!!

 

[The Grim Ghost]

Who is insulting TOS? There have always been people around who didn't like TOS ever since TNG came out. I haven't noticed more people insulting it than usual, unless I'm missing something..

If there are though, there is no accounting for bad taste

 

[Kirk1980]

In the Trek XI thread, there's a contingent who are bringing up TOS in a negative way and it just kind of rubbed me the wrong way.

But that's something I've seen throughout the media as regards TOS. Seriously, is that all people care about is the size of the budget?

 

[Vance]

Who is insulting TOS? There have always been people around who didn't like TOS ever since TNG came out. I haven't noticed more people insulting it than usual, unless I'm missing something..

If there are though, there is no accounting for bad taste

The majority of 'defenses' for the new Trek movie are phrased in extremely negative ways about the original series, sadly.

 

[The Grim Ghost]

^ Insulting the show responsible for the new movies very existence?

Seriously, do yourself a favor. To put it mildly I'm strongly against the new movie. To those who feel the same, just avoid talking about it with those who are enthusiastic about it if possible. Neither side is going to convince the other of anything, it just ends up turning into a big messy argument that can have no winner. Why not let them enjoy it, we still have the originals to talk about.

 

[Vance]

I'm only paying attention to the tech stuff when it comes up, honestly. So pics of the ships, etc, get my quick interest. But, really, not interested in joining in the discussions and will likely never see the movie.

 

[Kirk1980]

I'll give it a shot myself but.... whereas, TNG wasn't REALLY trying to 'catch lightning in a bottle twice' as GR said. It was a new ship, new crew.

I think this kinda will be, though. And it'll be hard.

I want to like it but...it has a lot going against it in my mind.

But yes, the people who are saying how awesome XI is going to be (with as little proof as the people who aren't enthused) are usually mocking TOS in their praise. It reeeks a little of JJ fanboyism to me, but hey....

I'd like to see what they thought could have been done more realistically in 1966 with a decreasing budget year after year. I mean, if they believe it's so crap, I'd hope they have better ideas.

 

[gomtuu20]

There has been a big increase in the negative remarks regarding TOS.
It has always bothered me a little that fans are expected to choose one generation over another. I love TOS and NG both. I see NG as a continuation of the original, not a competitor. I have heard many NG fans say that they can't watch the original, or that it makes them (condescendingly) laugh. They have no respect for the original and seem to have not have a clue that NG is basically a sequal. While the non-labelled blinking lights now look dated, the appearance of the bridge and the Enterprise herself have held up remarkably well, in my opinion. When Enterprise came out, there was a comment about how they would have to update some of the props, because we had already surpassed what was portrayed in the original. Specifically, it was noted that today's cell phones look sleeker than the original communicators. I understand all that, but for a TV show in the late sixties, communicators were utter science fiction. So were tri-corders. I think TOS tricorders look better than the ones on the later series. The look of the phasers still hold up. Regardless of the "visuals" of the shows though, I agree with the earlier post that STORY is king. TOS sure had some outstanding stories. The show was never about fx and props, it was about great story telling. The fx and props were only there to serve the purpose of the story, they themselves were not the story. Having said that, I am hoping that the movie and TOS remastered fx will help to revitalize TOS. I know a lot of people don't like the remastered, but I think it will only help attract greater popularity. TOS really hasn't been on the air nearly as much in the last 10 years as it had been. The 79 jewels had become a little tarnished and crusty in the eyes of the public. Perhaps it will help the twits get past the fx and actually pay attention to TOS stories.

 

[Outpost4]

I guess I don't see any increase about negative remarks regarding TOS.

If the argument is that other fans of Trek look down more on Star Trek nowadays than before, I strongly disagree. In any general poll of the popularity of each series around here, I've always seen Star Trek toward the top. DS9 wins, but Star Trek is always second. You want to feel persecuted? Become a Voyager fan.

And in the general population, it's always been derogatory to call somebody a Trekkie. Starting with John Belushi's Shatner impersonation, overacting has always been a knock on Star Trek. Even in the '70s, people may have liked the style of the show and enjoyed the stories but nobody thought of it as art. In fact, if anything, in syndication Star Trek was viewed as disposable afternoon filler.

Maybe that's one reason we all hang out in the TOS forum. We understand it's something different, and better.

 

[Nardpuncher]

I do find it odd when a member here will mention that they've never seen much TOS other than an episode or two, and say they've been a Trek fan for a few years. I mean...you owe it to yourself as a fan to at least try and wtach more of TOS.
Some even do what you say and speak quite negatively about it. That's like the people on the top floors of the Empire State Building resenting and even mocking the floors below them.

 

[Semah]

Who is insulting TOS? There have always been people around who didn't like TOS ever since TNG came out. I haven't noticed more people insulting it than usual, unless I'm missing something..

If there are though, there is no accounting for bad taste

The majority of 'defenses' for the new Trek movie are phrased in extremely negative ways about the original series, sadly.

This is in no way true.

 

[Vance]

This is in no way true.

Except in the way that it absolutely, positively, and is in all ways, completely true.

(Take a look at the Star Trek props threads going on right now, where most of the 'defense' of the god awful props being used in the new movie are phrased as 'the TOS props were just as rediculous, if not more so, and they kicked puppies and killed nuns!")

 

[Outpost4]

I agree with Semah here. I will be the first to admit I can't keep up with all the threads in that forum - what are there, five toy threads going on right now? - but if anything, I think the general tenor of complaints about Trek XI is that it hasn't been faithful enough to Star Trek. That has certainly been true in the negative reviews of the Enterprise.

Maybe I'm projecting some of my own concerns about Trek XI, but Vance, you and I read this differently. In those complaining about Trek XI, I find in general they have put Star Trek up as the standard and are sorry to see divergences from it. There is too much reverence for the series. I find myself hearing Kirk in my head, saying, "Come, come...young minds, fresh ideas. Be tolerant."

Nardpuncher does have a point, and maybe that's the reason for this thread. As young folks come onto TrekBBS because of interest in the movie, they haven't experienced Star Trek enough to get a good feel for it. I can see being seventeen and looking down on Star Trek the same way I, at seventeen, looked down on Flash Gordon and other movie serials of the '30s and '40s.

 

[Vance]

I dunno.. how about nearly EVERY SINGLE POST by Polaris, for instance? How about constantly harping on the 'camp' in the acting, etc. (even from people who admit they've never even WATCHED the original series).

Believe what you want, but I've seen enough outright hatred for TOS from 'fans' of this new movie that the mantra "It's Star Trek for people who Hated Star Trek but liked the Prequel Triology" is pretty damn apt.

 

[TheGodBen]

I do find it odd when a member here will mention that they've never seen much TOS other than an episode or two, and say they've been a Trek fan for a few years. I mean...you owe it to yourself as a fan to at least try and wtach more of TOS.

Not everyone has the time or the ability. I have been a Trek fan for years, I grew up on TNG and DS9, and I've seen every episode of Voyager and Enterprise too. But they never showed TOS on TV at a time when I would be able to watch it (normally it was on around 3am). It wasn't until I lost my job back in September that I finally had to time to dedicate towards watching TOS, so I borrowed the DVDs and gave it a shot.

The facts are that the sets do look cheap compared to the newer series, and the effects are very bad. That didn't detract from me enjoying the show, this is just the way things were back in the sixties. The core of the show is still very good and if you are watching Star Trek purely for the special effects then you're doing it wrong. A cheesy episode like Bread and Circuses is made worthwhile by a fantastic Spock/McCoy scene, and that is why I watch Star Trek.

And I don't care what anybody says, the NCC-1701 is the most beautiful ship in the franchise.

I tend to stay away from the XI forum so I have never encountered any TOS bashing. Most of the bashing I come across is directed towards Voyager, Enterprise and TNG.

 

[Semah]

This is in no way true.

Except in the way that it absolutely, positively, and is in all ways, completely true.

(Take a look at the Star Trek props threads going on right now, where most of the 'defense' of the god awful props being used in the new movie are phrased as 'the TOS props were just as rediculous, if not more so, and they kicked puppies and killed nuns!")

The majority of the defense of the movie itself boils down to, "You haven't seen the movie yet, quit the doom and gloom until you have."

 

[Vance]

I've been in there.. and, Semah, bullshit. Sorry, though that IS a common defense ("You haven't seen the movie so you can't judge if you want to see the movie!" ... the hell?), it's not THE defense anymore. It really has gone down to "Well, TOS had terrible actors, so Pine can only be an improvement", "Well, the TOS model was awful, so who cares if they changed it for the movie!" ... and so on, and so forth, ad naseum.