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Why is 1 day 26hrs???

Sure, there are cultural influences that helped shape our use of 24 hours, but some seem based on other more objective things that strengthen their continued use. Yeah, some can force other systems on the masses that are far less eloquent or useful or efficient, but in the fullness of time, I think they would be abandoned for ones that prove themselves to be more efficient.

The fact 24 is mathematically elegant isn't being confused with an anthropological truth, as if it MUST be that way, but only to suggest apart from highly subjective reasons, there may be other more objective one reasons that have bolstered the creation of a 24 hour system, and continue to support its use. Doubtless to me at least some of those reasons would similarly apply to other alien races that have remarkable, albeit coincidental similarities between them and Terrans.
 
Just as with evolution, what works better tends to stick around, and what works less well tends to die off. And here we are, working with our physiology, with a surviving 24 hour day, and a 12-hour clock we use twice a day (unless we use military time and offset the later half of the day by adding half a day's time to the second set of hours.

Many countries do already use the 24hour clock esp. in written form so as to avoid confusion. Look at a time table for a bus or plane in the UK and it'll likely be in the 24hour clock format but when spoken you might use the 12hour clock.
 
Because the Federation government is on Earth.

So what? The stardate system applies universally; it makes more sense to use a universal system for your overall Federation government than to use the local calendar of wherever the government happens to be meeting at that moment.
 
I've honestly tried to avoid studying the star date system to make sense of it. It would probably just upset me more as ships apparently travel thousands of light years in an paltry amount of time, well beyond what their warp capabilities are supposed to be able to do.
But sure, all Federation planets use the star date system. That wouldn't suggest they wouldn't similarly use their planetary cultural ones, too, particularly for events that are more local and less interstellar in nature.
 
You shouldn't read too much into a simple analogy, and while it is true evolution isn't striving toward anything in particular, I wouldn't call the process "random" inasmuch as natural forces are not simply random.

Well, indistinguishable from random in the wider view. The puny range across which life can adapt to its environment is easily bang-banged from extremity to extremity and beyond by the cruel nature, often and frequently, making life a random walk in a very literal sense.

If one were cast out of an apparent minima of goodness (a false minima), I see no reason why Nature would remain stuck at the false minima but would naturally settle for the newly found true minima.

Hmh? Escaping a minimum requires that all-important push. Evolution doesn't push. It only yields.

Cultural evolution may at times push. But the direction of push would be unpredictable, complicating rather than simplifying the issue of what timekeeping system one ends up with. We're in many cases stuck with that which (barely) works, and in many others with that which clearly doesn't work at all, and yet we're way too lazy to push; nowhere else is it more apparent than in our haphazard, dangerously unworkable collection of units of measurement.

I don't believe Creationism is applicable inasmuch as that term suggests a larger creation (universal creation) than the relatively small number of species whose genetics were toyed with by one ancient civilization in one galaxy

Most creation myths don't bother with "Where did bedrock come from?" or the like, so applying the term to the factual creation of humanoid life doesn't seem too limiting to me. And clearly we're witnessing intelligent design and realtime active meddling (if from beyond the grave) that shapes the fates of humanoid species.

Anyway, interplanetary species cross breading, despite its apparent ease in Trek, is likely the result of modern clever geneticists and their helping hand (gene manipulation) rather than a natural ability to crossbreed.

...Yet we have not one but two "love children" born to Gul Dukat of Bajoran women, despite the lecher's deep desire not to have any!

We need not always know the details to enjoy those stories, of course, but if you think a green-blooded, copper blood based humanoid can effortlessly mate and reproduce with a red blooded, iron based human without further genetic help, I don't think you're overly concerned about science but are perfectly fine with fantasy.

And that's what "The Chase" tried to do - introduce magic so advanced that it begins to look like technology. No mere 20th century twiddling with genes using bearskins and flint knives, but actual wielding of divine powers, with clear and plausible, i.e. very humanlike motivations for the wielders.

But what mystifies me most there is how that relates at all to obeying a 24-hour clock rule, or why an ancient race would even concern itself with such a thing, whose home
world's rotation was almost certainly different than 24 Earth hours.

Those elders clearly loved to micromanage. If there's to be 24 hours to be found at even one other location in the Trek galaxy, then this utterly implausible twist of events is best attributed to forces greater than nature.

Really, since the Trek Milky Way is so full of duplicate Earths, I'd bet the original template very much resembled the current n'th generation copy (i.e. our homeworld), some apparently more or less universal and uniform drift notwithstanding.

With Odo's penchant for reading old mystery novels (and Earth ones, no less – those Bajoran novels apparently suck too much to mention) he may have picked up the 24-Earth hour military clock, sure.

Both he and Kira seem comfortable with the "something hundred hours" notation in their one-on-one chats, so I wouldn't bet on it being an Odo quirk. (But no doubt the UT is perverting our view somewhat.)

Vic is too aware of "our" world to ignore the obvious advantages of synching with DS9 time and the schedules of those who visit his program when making dates or setting meeting times. Of course, I'm sure the program will display any time of day you want, so if you want an adventure at night, it wouldn’t matter if it were 10:30 a.m. outside the holosuite.

Which is exactly what might be going on here. Inside the simulation, it's 9 p.m., Vegas time, because that's a proper time for Odo to meet the Kira simulation in Vegas terms. Outside, it's 2100 hours because that's when Odo and Kira will be available for the matchmaking.

I thought somebody said Odo did mention a 25:00 hours time once – I don't recall, but all that would show is more than one time keeping system may be in use, and we know more than one is.

Alas, there isn't any 2500 hours or thirteen o'clock in the show...

So you're saying Vic explained himself to Odo despite knowing Odo already knew what he meant, to make fun of him? Doesn't sound like Vic, but there's no accounting for the whims of some holograms, I guess.

That's what would be going on if 9 p.m. and 2100 hours indeed were the same thing. If they are different things, then Vic isn't making fun but is giving important information.

It would probably just upset me more as ships apparently travel thousands of light years in an paltry amount of time, well beyond what their warp capabilities are supposed to be able to do.

Happily, there's no "supposed to" in Star Trek: warp drive is never given any sort of performance envelope other than that which is shown transpiring in the episodes. The characters may say "we can only do warp four due to damage", but they will never say "the top speed of this vessel is 47 lightyears per hour". Except in VOY "The 37s" where the performance given is so extreme that it can easily cater for all the "paltry amount of time" incidents in the remaining screen-years or script-kilometers of Trek.

Timo Saloniemi
 
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...Anybody know what's going on with that SIZE thing? How could it be edited out when it doesn't show up on the editor?

Timo Saloniemi
 
I still wouldn't call something "random" unless it truly was, despite appearances, anymore than I'd say we have "free will" if determinism were true but we just didn't know the future and only really have the appearance of free will. I've seen people calculate probabilities based on such things as if things were actually random, but they're not since the natural laws of the universe are in play and things follow those laws, like universal gravitation has molecules reacting in a puddle in some low area rather than anywhere in the wider environment, or electromagnetism and chemistry similarly makes certain combination following those laws and aren't just random ingredients making random arrangements of atoms and molecules. I also wouldn't mistake Nature for cruel when it's more indifferent.

Escaping a minimum may require a push, but that push doesn't have to be deliberate or motivated toward a particular goal. Like an earthquake might separate a population in two, and the changed environment for part of the former group might favor a new mutation that was already in the group, or might arise later. But the earthquake isn't random - it's following geological laws - and there are no cruel intentions on Nature's part, nor any desire to change the environment to favor a new mutation, and nor was the mutation a random occurrence. One may not know all the things "behind the scenes" but that doesn't make them random, or filled with purpose or intent, or moving toward a particular goal. But honestly, all this is well beyond the surface analogy I intended and quite off topic. Analogies are good, but hardly perfect in all regards. Beyond the fact the use of a 24-hour division of the day partially works since it has some objection reasons to prevail (not absolute ones that guarantee its use everywhere, mind you, but some objective ones that favor it and make it work for humans and their physiology, as opposed to ones that are purely arbitrary or actually random).

I still resist the term "Creationism" as you applied it to Star Trek since the term is most often used to describe how the universe came about or all life everywhere arose and not just one, or a smaller group of things. As for Intelligent Design, that "theory" assumes at its core that life is too complicated to have arisen without a creator, but then goes on to erroneously conclude it must therefore have been created by something even more complicated - a living, intelligent designer, and conveniently neglects to mention who designed the intelligent designer. Either at some point in a long string of intelligent designers, leading to the first intelligent designer, there arose one independently and therefore it can happen, contrary to the foundational assumption of the so-called theory, thus disproving it, or it makes a final appeal to some divine creator to make the first intelligent designer, making it just a backhanded form of creationism and therefore a religious belief and not a scientific theory. Yes, in Star Trek some writer did assume an ancient humanoid race seeded many local planets in this one galaxy with their DNA template, thus causing many local races to be humanoid and share enough traits to make interbreeding possible (even if other behind the scene notions suggest it's still harder than a human breading with a chimp, and only with the help of a skilled geneticist is it even possible). So many love children in Trek are just from writers who are fine working more with fantasy than science fiction. Fiction aside, the tiny number of races involved in that story hardly approach the universal claim, let alone a galactic-wide claim, that most creationists or intelligent designers would claim, and thus I'd avoid using those terms, or take exception to their use, lest one too easily read too much into those, too.

Just because some use decidedly better tech than stone knives and bearskins, that doesn't make them divine. The founders, for example, despite what they claim and bred into their servants, weren't gods, and nor were the wormhole aliens gods. Nor is Q, god. Nor was Apollo or Sargon. And anyone taking them as gods is just sufficiently primitive and ignorant enough so they don't understand the difference. Unless, of course, you wish to define God differently than some omniscient and omnipotent being that created the universe and all life in it, etc.

True, the duplicate Earth in Miri probably had a 24-hour day, or the Earths in the mirror mirror universes had them as well. And maybe the planet in the Yang/Coms civilization (The Omega Glory) since they were far older than Earth's history, so in a way, we seem to have copied them rather than them copying us (gasp). But yeah, exactly 24 Earth hours long is about as close to seemingly random as you can get, and I see no reason why an ancient race would even want to use that length, even assuming their home world had that exact period of rotation. There is no valid claim they like to micromanage things - only that they wished subsequent races not to be so desperately lonely like they were growing up all alone in the galaxy. Forcing a 24-hour day on those races does nothing toward that end.

It's true one might fairly assume the UT is translating Kira's Bajoran time to Federation time - which doesn't even necesarily suggest it's a integral number of Earth hours, but only the preference settings for round off error lands on 26 hours and not something like 25.967345 hours. Similarly, they often use multiples of 26, like 26, 52 or 78 (like we use 24, 48, and 72). These could be UT translations rounded off to the nearest earth hour so as to not be exceedingly annoying, like a Vulcan might be.

Vic's use of the DS9 clock seems more likely since he has to make many such scheduled events with the DS9 inhabitants than just that one dinner date for Odo and Kira. And telling Odo what the translation between standard time and military time was doesn't seem like he's making fun, but is genuinely trying to impart information (even though it's probably really the writer reminding an often clueless audience what he means). But it's all speculation - and Memory Alpha won't have any of it (in my experience) since they don't wish to publish fan speculation no matter how many facts from the show you can quote to support it (though I think I've seen enough speculation there on other topics to disprove that, but I'm not a MOD there, so why I think the system is based on 24-Bajoran hours (which are pretty close to 26 Earth hours) doesn't impress them enough to keep the paragraph I wrote about it).

Even in the show, enough numbers are given to demonstrate the Trek Universe is remarkably inconsistent when it comes to warp speeds and distances covered. For example, in Obsession, Kirk chases Moby Vampire Cloud 1,000 light years (which should take approximately 1 year at warp 9), but he does it at slower speeds and in short order. And many other examples like that too numerous to mention will reveal vast inconsistencies in the Trek universe. But I suppose one could argue, like they did for subspace communication speeds) these speeds are not constant, but depend largely on the conditions of space in which one is traveling, (or how many subspace communications relays one has laid between two points). Thus, real time communications between Bajor and Earth apparently happen, despite the 54 light year distance requiring 0.3 hours each way at subspace communication speeds (about 60 x the highest warp speed, or warp 9.999999 whatever). Trust me - don't go looking for consistency from numerous different writers who contributed to the Trek universe, or the actors who played the parts, since such matters are well beyond their concern. Too many things in the Trek universe only make sense if you don't look at them too closely, particularly most anything to do with warp speed, transporters, replicators, or holodecks.
 
When I use a word processor and paste my comments here, I always get that ugly SIZE tag. The only way I can avoid it so far is to type here, in this provided box. If I wish to check it for spelling or grammar, I have to copy that to a text editor to check, and then manually correct the mistakes I find. At no time can I paste anything herein I wish to avoid the SIZE tag.
What annoys me more is there is no apparent way to edit a post after you submit it here. I like sites that allow one to edit posts after submission, though at the bottom they would time stamp when the last edit was made for obvious reasons.
 
I believe there is a 14-day/14-post waiting period before you can edit a post. With regards to spellchecking, does your web browser not have a spellchecker built into it?
 
Vic's use of the DS9 clock seems more likely since he has to make many such scheduled events with the DS9 inhabitants than just that one dinner date for Odo and Kira. And telling Odo what the translation between standard time and military time was doesn't seem like he's making fun, but is genuinely trying to impart information (even though it's probably really the writer reminding an often clueless audience what he means)..

The 24hour clock doesn't need explaining it's been in wide enough usage for decades that most people would understand it. As for Standard Time isn't that when summer time (aka Daylight Savings) is not in use?
 
Ah, yes, there is a 14-day/14-post waiting period before I can upload an avatar, so maybe other benefits come with that milestone, too.

Autocorrect works in a limited way and might correct some stuff (but auto correct often gets it wrong). I prefer my word processor, but doing that, unfortunately, saddles me with those nasty SIZE tags.

Military time frequently still confuses some people. Standard time - yeah, maybe that's not the best term. What would be better? Civilian time?

Regardless of what it's called, the fact the exchange between Vic and Odo uses an offset of 12 hours and not 13 is suggestive. It's just not definite enough since the UT may be doing it, Vic may be using some weird Holosuite time (this sounds least likely to me), they may be using 24-Bajor hours and not 24-Federation hours there, etc. etc. I can feel confident which is more likely, but that's not the same as saying I have a source closer to those who made those creative decisions, or some absolute proof through quote dialogue what they intended. The truth is, several cases can be made for a number of possibilities.
 
Well if you are dead set on using your word processor I'd recommend first copying and pasting your text into notepad and then copying the contents of notepad. That will get rid of all the formatting and all you will be pasting into the reply box is plain text. You may need to manually re-enter your paragraph breaks though.
 
There may be other ways to do it, too, or other formats I can use. It's slightly annoying to others, but I try a thing or two and see if any work.
 
Ah, yes, there is a 14-day/14-post waiting period before I can upload an avatar, so maybe other benefits come with that milestone, too.

Autocorrect works in a limited way and might correct some stuff (but auto correct often gets it wrong). I prefer my word processor, but doing that, unfortunately, saddles me with those nasty SIZE tags.

Military time frequently still confuses some people. Standard time - yeah, maybe that's not the best term. What would be better? Civilian time?

Regardless of what it's called, the fact the exchange between Vic and Odo uses an offset of 12 hours and not 13 is suggestive. It's just not definite enough since the UT may be doing it, Vic may be using some weird Holosuite time (this sounds least likely to me), they may be using 24-Bajor hours and not 24-Federation hours there, etc. etc. I can feel confident which is more likely, but that's not the same as saying I have a source closer to those who made those creative decisions, or some absolute proof through quote dialogue what they intended. The truth is, several cases can be made for a number of possibilities.

How about the terms 12hour clock and 24hour clock. And I think you mean the 24hour clock still confuses many Americans as adoption of the 24hour clock (to varying degrees) is more widespread outside of the USA.
 
Apparently that works. So thanks for putting up with these boring tests. There are several ways to avoid the problem - the easiest the "remove formatting" I didn't know was there, or didn't recognize before. But your scroll over it and it tells you it's for removing formatting. So that's what I'll do, when necessary.

Could I suggest that when you want to make a series of tests like this you create a different thread so that you don't derail someone's existing thread?
 
"Derail" is a bit strong, IMO. Besides, I wasn't the only one here who had a problem with SIZE tags, so I felt it might benefit others. And Savage Dragon is a moderator and was making suggestions. But if those posts are annoying, maybe the MOD could just delete those particular test posts. I'm fine with it.
 
OK so DS9 base their time and day on Bajor, but then how does the federation operate over a vast area with everyone having different times and lengths of days. Surely every planet, stations and ship in the federation should base their time and date on a 24 hour Earth day.

I imagine individual ship captains decide the length of the day based on demographic makeup of their ship.
 
As a rule we ask posters not to make more than two posts in a row. Doing so can be considered spamming and can result in an infraction. Obviously being new here you aren't expected to know all the rules yet, but please keep this in mind in the future. You can find a brief guide to posting on the Trek BBS here.

As far as technical issues are concerned, the Questions, Suggestions & Feedback forum is the best place to work these issues out. You can create a thread there and other members and mods will be happy to help.

But if those posts are annoying, maybe the MOD could just delete those particular test posts. I'm fine with it.

Thanks. I will go ahead and do that. :)
 
The length of day aboard a ship is usually synchronized to the ship's homeport, or some agreed upon standard, like an average of all the ports in its patrol sector, or the most important port. Starfleet personnel are expected to adopt StarFleet standards rather than have StarFleet accommodate them in most regards, probably including the length of day on board a ship.

Typically, whatever the length, they are most commonly divided up into 3 shifts (we assume 8-hour shifts, but whose hour or what hour or how long the hour may be is debatable). For greater flexibility and to avoid fatigue in exceptional times of stress, a 4-shift system is sometimes implemented (we assume 6-hour shifts, but again, the actual length of the hour is debatable). All this once again demonstrates the utility of a 24-hour clock and the convenience of its many possible factors to easily divide up the day in equal intervals using the factors 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 12, and 24, no matter what the actual length of the day may be aboard a ship, or the length of the day for most planets.

I've seen admiral ranked posters post more twice in a row. Well, it's just a guideline more than a hard and fast rule, though it does make it much harder to reply to several posters at once. Instead of 3 separate posts to reply to three separate posters, is it really better to cram it all in one post and use the cluttered looking quote-function? Besides, the MOD should be able to discern what is actually spam and step on the offender when spam actually rears its ugly head. Otherwise, the absolute rules would tend to discount the ubiquitous exceptions of life – or something like Picard said once. Regardless, I have now followed your link and read the rules and shall try to comply with them. Thanks.

I didn't mean "Americans" are more confused, but if that's your assessment, that's fine - it's just not what I meant when I said "some people."
 
I didn't mean "Americans" are more confused, but if that's your assessment, that's fine - it's just not what I meant when I said "some people."

Looking at the wiki article that deals with 24hour clock

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24-hour_clock

It tends to indicate that the USA is one of a handful of countries that still predominantly uses the 12hour clock. So it's not unreasonable to think that in those countries people might not be as familiar with the 24hour clock and might get confused.
 
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