Why I Couldn't Get Through Enterprise

[Jen]

Demons and Terra Prime had nearly half of each episode devoted to Travis Mayweather. They just sucked, which is why no one remembers he was one of the main characters.

Demons and Terra Prime came 4 years too late for Mayweather. Basically, by that point, he was a guest character. It would have been like having the "nameless conn officer" on TNG have a 2 part episode devoted to them.

That's what Travis became as the series went on....the nameless conn officer. Except we knew his name.

 

[commodore64]

Demons and Terra Prime came 4 years too late for Mayweather. Basically, by that point, he was a guest character. It would have been like having the "nameless conn officer" on TNG have a 2 part episode devoted to them.

That's what Travis became as the series went on....the nameless conn officer. Except we knew his name.

Agreed -- hence my comment. Why on Earth would a team of writers decide, "You know, now that program is just about over, let's flesh out Mayweather in a rather retarded way -- give him a booty call." Dumb.

This is the kind of mindless writing that sunk Enterprise. It's also one of the reasons, as I mentioned, Demons and Terra Prime stunk.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Hah you weaklings! I got thru the whole run (skipping maybe a couple of the worst episodes after being warned here - never seen ANiS for example) despite loathing the first two seasons and being underwhelmed by the third.

But anyone who bailed early should get S4 on DVD. Best Trek since DS9 went off the air.

I think T'Pol and Vulcans in general were one of ENT's best features.

The Vulcan arc on S4 was definitely on the right track. And tho I hated T'Pol from the first for being an obvious Seven knockoff, overall she didn't turn out so bad - hey, at least she finally confirmed that not only do Vulcans have emotions, but they are more violent than humans' emotions, something that had really only been at the level of (very plausible) fanon before.

 

[commodore64]

hey, at least she finally confirmed that not only do Vulcans have emotions, but they are more violent than humans' emotions, something that had really only been at the level of (very plausible) fanon before.

I thought Impulse was the only episode that really explored that, and part of the reason I liked that episode so much. T'Pol's emotion was never explained as "Vulcan emotion." It would've made more sense though. Even the arc didn't explain Vulcan outbursts as Vulcan emotion. I assumed, for example, the administrator was Romulan.

On ANIS, it's actually pretty good. I'm one of those people that don't like being told what to believe and like to find out for myself. Has worked, overall, in my favor. That way *I* get to decide whether I like something or not, rather than being told to like it/not to like it.

 

[LadyNRA]

I got through ENT, but just barely. I've seen my favorite TOS, TNG and DS9 episodes countless times, but I've only watched each ENT episode once, with only 1-2 exceptions.

I'm not quite as extreme but I'm with you. I had tremendous hope for this show. I wanted a strong and heroic captain that would be worthy of the history that he/she and his/her crew would be making, but I never got it. No fault of Bakula's. In fact, he and the actors who portrayed Malcolm, Trip, Phlox, and Hoshi were very good. Travis and T'Pol's actors, not so much. The writing on this show is what hurt it most. The writers should've made it more of an ensamble cast show and explored the other characters much more. I never warmed to either Archer or T'Pol, and she was just plain annoying all of the time. Every other Vulcan I saw in these shows was considerably better written and acted.

I tend to agree. It's not that these actors did a bad job. they worked with what they were given in terms of scripts. So if one of you particularly dislikes a character but it has nothing to do with the kind of character he is, then it's probably due to the weaker writing for the character. Anthony Montgomery was talented enough. He just got stuck with "Mayweather" as the writers conceived him. Now and then they gave him something more interesting to do but he was always more of a background player and that was a shame.

 

[indranee]

I loved ENT while it was on, watched it religiously, joined TrekUnited staff and tried to get it renewed but... to tell the truth, I don't watch it anymore. I mean, I would watch every Trek show now that comes on TV, except ENT. maybe I just need time away because I got so burned out, maybe it's that it's not as good as TOS, TNG and DS9 (I don't much like VOY), but that's the way it is, right now. we'll see what happens in a few years.

oh, and I quite liked Archer; I liked S4 except for the Trip/T'Pol soap opera; I liked Season 2 (except for some eps in the middle); and I love ANIS.

 

[SFRabid]

hey, at least she finally confirmed that not only do Vulcans have emotions, but they are more violent than humans' emotions, something that had really only been at the level of (very plausible) fanon before.

I thought Impulse was the only episode that really explored that, ...

I thought TOS explored that. Several times Spok confirmed that Vulcans learned to suppress their emotions in an effort to survive a violent society. During the episode that he has to mate he talked about the violent history and that emotions are suppressed, not eradicated.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

they portrayed humans and bumbling idiots who had no respect for chain of command and who wanted to impose human morality and way of life on every species.

They shouldn't have been portrayed as bumbling idiots, I agree. It's possible to depict less-than-perfect people who don't inspire contempt. TOS and DS9 are fine examples that they could have followed.

But Starfleet always wants to impose human morality and way of life on every species. The only reason they don't actually do that is because they'd rather just show up, lecture the stupid aliens and then fly off to the next planet. To impose your way of life, you have to stick around. Starfleet is far too ADHD for that.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

hey, at least she finally confirmed that not only do Vulcans have emotions, but they are more violent than humans' emotions, something that had really only been at the level of (very plausible) fanon before.

I thought Impulse was the only episode that really explored that, ...

I thought TOS explored that. Several times Spok confirmed that Vulcans learned to suppress their emotions in an effort to survive a violent society. During the episode that he has to mate he talked about the violent history and that emotions are suppressed, not eradicated.

Regardless, there were people who regarded the Vulcan-emotion thing as fanon. They were in this very forum. I was glad T'Pol finally shut them up.

 

[Trevacious]

When T'Pol appeared, I thought, "breast implants are illogical."

 

[T'Parm]

When T'Pol appeared, I thought, "breast implants are illogical."

If women use large breasts to land weathly husbands I'm not sure that breast implants would be all that illogical.

 

[Mr. Fergy]

I gave up on Enterprise once T'Pol and Trip got jiggy wit it. Fonzie's shark escapades had nothing on that nonsense.

I know. If You can just watch the Last Season (Season 4) first, then you maybe able to hang with Enterprise.

 

[commodore64]

I thought TOS explored that. Several times Spok confirmed that Vulcans learned to suppress their emotions in an effort to survive a violent society. During the episode that he has to mate he talked about the violent history and that emotions are suppressed, not eradicated.

Spock rarely discussed the violent side of Vulcans -- part of the reason why Amok Time was shocking for the humans. In fact, he rarely discussed emotions and for the most part, he discussed emotions from his human side. (He's half-Vulcan/half-human.)

ENT had a great opportunity to really dig into the Vulcan traditions and for the most part missed the boat. I think it also confused new fans (people introduced to Trek through ENT); they believe Vulcans are emotional ... rather than they have emotions that they purposefully suppress.

I know. If You can just watch the Last Season (Season 4) first, then you maybe able to hang with Enterprise.

T'Pol and Trip still get jiggy a bit in season 4.

 

[Nimthim]

There is an article at Trekmovie with a link to a lecture by a "postcyberpunk author" who opines that the problems we have with the portrayals of Vulcans in later Star Trek series is due to Nimoy giving us the ultimate Vulcan that other actors cannot come near emulating. He defined Vulcans for us and did it so well that we measure all others against him and find them wanting.
Spock also had the advantage of being half human, so struggles with emotion could be attributed to his heritage. I personally think that Mark Lenard gave us strong hints of the supressed emotions of even a 'perfect, logical' Vulcan when Sarek interacted with Amanda.
Both Nimoy and Lenard showed us that Vulcan emotion can be perfectly expressed with minute facial expression and body language - nor were they excessively stiff like we see so much in later shows.
Unfortunately for T'Pol, such subtle expressions didn't play off most of the other characters very well.

 

[commodore64]

^ Good thoughts. Yes, Nimoy was the ultimate Vulcan. And you're right, Lenard was also very good; Sarek was an amazing character. I mean, look at what he managed to do with a guest spot in Journey to Babel! Lenard ended up in films and future Star Trek episodes b/c he was so good -- even outside of being "Spock's dad."

I also liked T'Pring. Coldly logical. The original T'Pau had at least mystery around her.

I thought Blalock did a nice job for the most part, given what she was given. I'm not really sure what made the writers take her in the directions they did. I know the actress wasn't happy, understanding who and what Spock was perhaps more than many of the writers. The most disappointing was they de-constructed her character in season 3 without re-constructing it in season 4. In the end, I felt like she'd become a lost Vulcan who hadn't found her place among humans or Vulcans. Sad place to leave a character.

 

[gblews]

There is an article at Trekmovie with a link to a lecture by a "postcyberpunk author" who opines that the problems we have with the portrayals of Vulcans in later Star Trek series is due to Nimoy giving us the ultimate Vulcan that other actors cannot come near emulating. He defined Vulcans for us and did it so well that we measure all others against him and find them wanting.

Agree. Tim Russ' Tuvok came closest to presenting what Nimoy did in spin-off Trek. But even Russ lacked Nimoy's depth, humor, ability to charm like no Vulcan should.

Both Nimoy and Lenard showed us that Vulcan emotion can be perfectly expressed with minute facial expression and body language - nor were they excessively stiff like we see so much in later shows.

Jolene may have wanted her Vulcan character to be like Spock, but unfortunately, her acting chops would never have been able to carry it off even if T'Pol was supposed to be like Spock, and she wasn't. I love Jo to death, but part of the reason I disliked T'Pol so much in the first two seasons was because of her inablility to infuse her character with "charm".

It wasn't until season 3 when the writers really began exploiting Jo's natural vulnerability, that I warmed to T'Pol and actually began to really like her. Jolene seemed easily able to play vulnerable whereas some of the other stuff -- like being condescending, dismissive, elitist, and make us love T'Pol while she did it, seemed beyond her grasp.

 

[Unicron]

I didn't like ENT's portrayal of Vulcans. I thought they were made too antagonistic, and always at the expense of making the human characters, particularly, Archer look better. That being said, I also didn't like how humans were portrayed. Though they had far less space experience than just about any other race featured on the show, humans were always right and human values predominated.

I agree they could have handled both races better. I liked the idea that races like the Vulcans and Andorians would be cautious about letting humans jump too far too soon, as the new kids on the block.

Personally I didn't want T'Pol really exploring her emotions. We've seen that before to some extent with Spock and Tuvok. Or at least the conflict between Vulcan logic and emotion.

I don't think that conflict is quite the same as exploring your emotions. I also think that for a race like the Vulcans, who've learned to place value on suppressing violent emotions, the chance to experience them on a more general level would be somewhat appealing. Much like how the view on mind melds seems to have reversed between ENT and TOS.

Why couldn't a human explore, or find value in Vulcan logic for instance? That's something we haven't really seen before.

If you mean a human making a more in-depth exploration of Vulcan society and their lifestyle, I agree. It's certainly possible that such individuals exist and simply haven't been shown.

T'Pol's additions to the logic v. emotion debate were muddled to me. For one, the whole addiction thing was stupid. Why would she need to take drugs to experience emotions she already has? All she would have to do is let down her mental guards.

I don't think it would be quite that simple, or the best solution from T'Pol's point of view. She's been suppressing her emotions her whole life, and been taught a philosophy that emotions are dangerous. Hence the addiction as a way of release.

I do agree with you about the lack of development for the cast in general. It's one thing about the series that really disappointed me, because I feel they deserved a lot better.