You say you lost interest in the show because T'pol lost the ability to control her emotions, and then later say what angered you the most was T'pol controlling her emotions and not being offended?
Why I Couldn't Get Through Enterprise
- Thread starter geekmaster1
- Start date
You say you lost interest in the show because T'pol lost the ability to control her emotions, and then later say what angered you the most was T'pol controlling her emotions and not being offended?
Uh oh, watch out guys ... This has been moved to the Enterprise forum. One of the mods - and I won't mention which one she is - hands out warnings to anyone who says even the slightest thing negative about the show. Unless you're 100% in line with "enterprise doesn't suck" she'll warn you, and it doesn't matter that everything that was said was outside of her forum. She'll do it anyway.
As for my problems with Enterprise ... well there are so many, but a few of the big ones were that this was supposed to be a prequel taking place 200 years before TNG, with only a warp 5 engine, yet the Ferengi show up and take out the entire crew centuries before their so-called first contact? Riiiiight.
The writing was just awful, it seemed like the actors were embarrassed to have to read their lines at times.
They've got a single black person on the ship, and in half the episodes he doesn't even get a line. I was waiting for him to show up in a dress and say "Hailing frequencies open, sir."
They apparently tried to connect the show with other episodes we'd seen before, and consistently got it wrong. How hard is it to pop in a tape or dvd of the episode they want to reference?
Ugh. The show sucked. There were less than a handful of non-suck episodes, but the overwhelming majority are simply not worthy of the name "Star Trek" and that's a shame. It had promise. It lost that promise by the end of the pilot.
As for my problems with Enterprise ... well there are so many, but a few of the big ones were that this was supposed to be a prequel taking place 200 years before TNG, with only a warp 5 engine, yet the Ferengi show up and take out the entire crew centuries before their so-called first contact? Riiiiight.
The writing was just awful, it seemed like the actors were embarrassed to have to read their lines at times.
They've got a single black person on the ship, and in half the episodes he doesn't even get a line. I was waiting for him to show up in a dress and say "Hailing frequencies open, sir."
They apparently tried to connect the show with other episodes we'd seen before, and consistently got it wrong. How hard is it to pop in a tape or dvd of the episode they want to reference?
Ugh. The show sucked. There were less than a handful of non-suck episodes, but the overwhelming majority are simply not worthy of the name "Star Trek" and that's a shame. It had promise. It lost that promise by the end of the pilot.
Following the events of the Vulcan arc, T'Pol began to study the Kir'shara, the true teachings of Surak. (You probably don't know about any of this because you stopped watching at some point). I believe that had we gotten a fifth season we would have seen a T'Pol who was moving closer to the Vulcans we see in TOS.
So you must hate all Star Trek. Because I don't recall any of the series treating injustice, exploitation, sexism, racism, religious fanaticism, genocide, political corruption, inequality or oppression of the weak as simply an "alternative lifestyle."
In fact, planets seeking membership in the Federation had to meet standards of peaceful coexistence, justice, equality and fair treatment of the population.
As for T'Pol's tolerance of the bumbling, interfering humans ... So she didn't quit her post in a huff, but persisted in trying to guide their choices, urging Archer to adopt a policy of non-interference and respect for other species. What an idiot.
Funny, I thought Archer came off as petty and immature in his dealings with most Vulcans (often including T'Pol).
Have you watched any of the other Trek series?
That would have been interesting. Sadly, they flirted with the idea and it went nowhere. In Sleeping Dogs, T'Pol teaches Hoshi a technique for controlling her fear. They could have taken it a step further and had T'Pol mentor Hoshi in meditation.
Speaking of which, I think having T'Pol instruct Trip in Vulcan meditation and emotional control would have been a more interesting and less exploitive use of the characters in season 3.
Oh well.
You been reading my mind?
Won't argue with you here.
I must say, I'm always baffled by some kind of critics toward Enterprise. Sure, it had some mediocre episodes, like all the series, some irrational plot developments and some wrong decisions about characters (never liked very much T'pol as drug addict). On the other hand, it has some outstanding values which made it, IMO, far better than TOS or TNG (I haven't seen DS9 and Voyager therefore cannot express my opinion). I wouldn't like to offend any TOS fans, but I find its production values, camera work, sets etc. extremely poor: I know, these are Sxties, no computer for special effects, but still... Space 1999 is only some years later and their production values are so much better. As for acting, withn all due respect, TOS tells me nothing, exception made for Spock and I couldn't care less for Kirk and his Don Giovanni temper.
Some characters in TNG are better developped (I really couldn't tell anything about Riker or Troy), but they are mostly GIVEN, there is no growing, no becoming more mature, IMO. In comparison, Enterprise's characters do change, every one of them: it can be not always totally convincing, but it make them interesting. Special effects are very good, but so is camera work, use of music and pacing (usually). And, ultimately, while TOS and to some extend TNG give me impression of fantasy rather than s-f, Enterprise gives me really a science-fiction feeling.
Some characters in TNG are better developped (I really couldn't tell anything about Riker or Troy), but they are mostly GIVEN, there is no growing, no becoming more mature, IMO. In comparison, Enterprise's characters do change, every one of them: it can be not always totally convincing, but it make them interesting. Special effects are very good, but so is camera work, use of music and pacing (usually). And, ultimately, while TOS and to some extend TNG give me impression of fantasy rather than s-f, Enterprise gives me really a science-fiction feeling.
The mods don't warn against not liking Enterprise.
Actually, one mod has - she warned me for not liking it. It's really pretty fucking pathetic that you're unable to have different opinions of something without being warned, as she does. But don't worry, I won't mention Kalen by name.
Jinx,
About the predominance of human values in the other Trek shows. You do have a point, however in those shows the Federation had already been established, and Earth was a significant part of it.
With ENT that wasn't the case. United Earth started out being one power among many, and we're not quite sure how powerful Earth was during the 22nd century in comparison to the Andorians and Tellarites, etc. We do know that the Vulcans were more powerful and had more galactic reach and scope. So, maybe it would've behooved the humans to have listened more to them. Or at least had one human on the NX-01 that was more sympathetic to the Vulcan POV.
With ENT it would've been nice to see humans trying and failing more, gaining their footing. Sometimes they would be right, and sometimes they would be wrong. Sometimes they would admit that the Vulcans were right on a few things. But all too often it seemed that the Vulcans were on the receiving end. The Vulcans not believing or accepting time travel was a major one that bothered me. With Trek we've seen all of these temporal anomalies, etc. in every series. Now if the Vulcans had been in space for decades, at least, prior to ENT I thought they they might've at least encountered one or not at least not totally dismiss the idea out of hand. Doesn't sound too scientific to me.
About the predominance of human values in the other Trek shows. You do have a point, however in those shows the Federation had already been established, and Earth was a significant part of it.
With ENT that wasn't the case. United Earth started out being one power among many, and we're not quite sure how powerful Earth was during the 22nd century in comparison to the Andorians and Tellarites, etc. We do know that the Vulcans were more powerful and had more galactic reach and scope. So, maybe it would've behooved the humans to have listened more to them. Or at least had one human on the NX-01 that was more sympathetic to the Vulcan POV.
With ENT it would've been nice to see humans trying and failing more, gaining their footing. Sometimes they would be right, and sometimes they would be wrong. Sometimes they would admit that the Vulcans were right on a few things. But all too often it seemed that the Vulcans were on the receiving end. The Vulcans not believing or accepting time travel was a major one that bothered me. With Trek we've seen all of these temporal anomalies, etc. in every series. Now if the Vulcans had been in space for decades, at least, prior to ENT I thought they they might've at least encountered one or not at least not totally dismiss the idea out of hand. Doesn't sound too scientific to me.
What's odd is I find most of the criticism around Ent from the regulars is about this. For example, people express upset that Archer wasn't more experienced in diplomacy, intergalatic relations, etc. and that made mistakes from time-to-time. Another example, people think in Cogenitor, Trip - without question - was right to use human standards and morals to determine the fate of Charlie. Folks didn't approve of Trip not knowing how to handle command. People disliked or misunderstood the conflict between humans and Vulcans.
To me, I always liked when humans tried and failed, but learned. I saw a few of the characters progress based on their mistakes and enjoyed it.
Although I thought they were too emotional (especially T'Pol) I liked the portrayel of the Vulcans here. Definitely the most interesting since the origina series.
I think the "alien learning to be human" storyline has been done to death and that the next Star Trek show (and you know there will be one) should abandon this overused and tired premise.
I think the "alien learning to be human" storyline has been done to death and that the next Star Trek show (and you know there will be one) should abandon this overused and tired premise.
^ Agreed. And in this case, I didn't think it was in T'Pol's best interest for her to "learn to be human." Coming into her own as a Vulcan would've been much more interesting.
The Seventh aside, I think Trip usually came off looking good in command of the Enterprise. Especially during the Vulcan arc in the last season. Him and Soval made a pretty good team too.
Usually, he did. I think he had some learnings in the earlier episodes.
Soval and Trip? I thought they were fine, but not "Wow - I want to see them paired together again." I usually liked Soval and T'Pol teamed better. I wish they had more scenes throughout the series.
Soval and Trip? I thought they were fine, but not "Wow - I want to see them paired together again." I usually liked Soval and T'Pol teamed better. I wish they had more scenes throughout the series.
I felt the same way when I saw Spoc cry during the early ep's of TOS. They ruined the show using a Vulcan with emotions. It was not right and I have not respected Star Trek since.
while this only addresses one part of your post.
are you aware how often tos played out like that.
apple, return of the archons ect..
Actually, one mod has - she warned me for not liking it. It's really pretty fucking pathetic that you're unable to have different opinions of something without being warned, as she does. But don't worry, I won't mention Kalen by name.
Yeah, this stops right here and right now. I am a hairsbreadth from issuing a warning for this ridiculous behavior, so I suggest you knock it off now. There is a system for discussing your infractions, and that is to go through PM with the mod and, if unresolved, to take it to MA.
I don't give a crap if you liked the show or not--trolling behavior is not acceptable. It certainly brings nothing to your fellow posters or to the discussion at hand.
Enterprise was hit and miss for me. I adored the first season, but during the second season, I kinda wandered away. There were a hell of a lot of bad episodes in the second season. I returned for the third season, and fell in love again. The fourth season was just f*cking awesome.
Now, I do have lots of issues with the show. Since I've been working my way through the series again recently, those issues are fresh in my mind.
Characters:
Mayweather: I think Keckler over at TWOP said it best in her Twilight recap when she wrote "On the Bridge, Cpt. T'Pol crouches next to a fallen May-Dead-Again. He looks pretty dead. Again. This fails to answer the question: how many times can you "kill" a character before you finally fire him?" I mean, seriously....what was the point of the Mayweather character after the first few episodes of Season 1? They never, EVER utilized him except to kill him in alternate realities. Even in IAMD 2 he was simply relegated to Empress Sato's bitch.
T'Pol: I'm sorry to all the T'Pol lovers out there, but I just did not like the direction the character went. Why did she have to explore her emotions? Why did she have to become a crack whore? There are no good answers to these questions, except they wanted her to hook with with either Archer or Trip, and in B&B's warped minds, the only way they could do that would be to give her emotions. We could have had a very dignified character who got accustomed to living amongst humans. We still could have had her help Trip though his sister's death....thus forming a bond, etc. etc. etc. They didn't have to throw emotions at a Vulcan. The relationship still could have worked. It's been done. Sarek and Amanda? Hello?
Archer: Okay, I love Scott Bakula. I loved him in almost everything he's ever done. However, during his 4 years on Enterprise, he never did learn to pull the stick out of his ass.
Plots
Temporal Cold War: Oh, God. I could go on and on and ON about how dumb this idea was. I could spend hours going over all the reasons why this idea never would have worked, no matter who was writing it. However, all I'll say is this: 3 f*cking years and we still didn't find out who Evil Future Guy was. That pissed me off.
With all that being said, Enterprise was fun. It had it's ups and downs, but all shows do. God, I could barely get through the 7th season of TNG or most of Voyager. You had to take the good with the bad, and for the most part, the good of ENT outweighed the bad.
Now, I do have lots of issues with the show. Since I've been working my way through the series again recently, those issues are fresh in my mind.
Characters:
Mayweather: I think Keckler over at TWOP said it best in her Twilight recap when she wrote "On the Bridge, Cpt. T'Pol crouches next to a fallen May-Dead-Again. He looks pretty dead. Again. This fails to answer the question: how many times can you "kill" a character before you finally fire him?" I mean, seriously....what was the point of the Mayweather character after the first few episodes of Season 1? They never, EVER utilized him except to kill him in alternate realities. Even in IAMD 2 he was simply relegated to Empress Sato's bitch.
T'Pol: I'm sorry to all the T'Pol lovers out there, but I just did not like the direction the character went. Why did she have to explore her emotions? Why did she have to become a crack whore? There are no good answers to these questions, except they wanted her to hook with with either Archer or Trip, and in B&B's warped minds, the only way they could do that would be to give her emotions. We could have had a very dignified character who got accustomed to living amongst humans. We still could have had her help Trip though his sister's death....thus forming a bond, etc. etc. etc. They didn't have to throw emotions at a Vulcan. The relationship still could have worked. It's been done. Sarek and Amanda? Hello?
Archer: Okay, I love Scott Bakula. I loved him in almost everything he's ever done. However, during his 4 years on Enterprise, he never did learn to pull the stick out of his ass.
Plots
Temporal Cold War: Oh, God. I could go on and on and ON about how dumb this idea was. I could spend hours going over all the reasons why this idea never would have worked, no matter who was writing it. However, all I'll say is this: 3 f*cking years and we still didn't find out who Evil Future Guy was. That pissed me off.
With all that being said, Enterprise was fun. It had it's ups and downs, but all shows do. God, I could barely get through the 7th season of TNG or most of Voyager. You had to take the good with the bad, and for the most part, the good of ENT outweighed the bad.
I was kinda pleased with the series up until Shockwave 2.
What bothers me most is that they did not seem to have a concept for the space that had been visited and colonized prior to the ENT era.
Keeping vague how many aliens are known to mankind already or how life and politics on Earth are like was okay for the other series.
But for such a prequel it should have been important to give details about that world and especially show more of those colonies. This was a new phase in exploration anyway, so the status quo should have been better defined and explained.
Are there alien ambassadors on Earth besides the vulcans? Are they all "backwards" like humans or do the Vulcans actively keep alien races from collaborating?
Do the Vulcans keep other races under their wings "for their protection"?
They never adressed those issues, which is odd because they always gave the impression the humans know many races already.
Venturing into the unknown is a great thing, but all other shows have also dealt with the human race and what they have been doing on other planets- which made for great stories (a zillion colonist eps on TNG, Conscience of the King, Paradise...).
And if you are again dealing mostly in bumpy headed humanoids, you could aswell deal with other humans in space- some "outland" scenario, human colonists having clashed with indigenous races etc. This stuff basically writes itself.
Also, it would have helped to portray pre-UFP humans as more shady. Troi said something about hunger and war being eliminated within 40 years. That doesn't necessarily mean everybody is just a happy family.
This is one reason I liked the space boomer eps. But it could have been so much more interesting.
Also, the Xenophobia issue (and section 31) should have been part of the series from the beginning.
What bothers me most is that they did not seem to have a concept for the space that had been visited and colonized prior to the ENT era.
Keeping vague how many aliens are known to mankind already or how life and politics on Earth are like was okay for the other series.
But for such a prequel it should have been important to give details about that world and especially show more of those colonies. This was a new phase in exploration anyway, so the status quo should have been better defined and explained.
Are there alien ambassadors on Earth besides the vulcans? Are they all "backwards" like humans or do the Vulcans actively keep alien races from collaborating?
Do the Vulcans keep other races under their wings "for their protection"?
They never adressed those issues, which is odd because they always gave the impression the humans know many races already.
Venturing into the unknown is a great thing, but all other shows have also dealt with the human race and what they have been doing on other planets- which made for great stories (a zillion colonist eps on TNG, Conscience of the King, Paradise...).
And if you are again dealing mostly in bumpy headed humanoids, you could aswell deal with other humans in space- some "outland" scenario, human colonists having clashed with indigenous races etc. This stuff basically writes itself.
Also, it would have helped to portray pre-UFP humans as more shady. Troi said something about hunger and war being eliminated within 40 years. That doesn't necessarily mean everybody is just a happy family.
This is one reason I liked the space boomer eps. But it could have been so much more interesting.
Also, the Xenophobia issue (and section 31) should have been part of the series from the beginning.
I thought the Mayweather actor did a fantastic job in "Observer Effect." But, other than that, he was not utilized well. I love ENT, but still wish it could have been much better. I've always thought it was a mistake to put a Vulcan on board, and I can hardly stand to watch those episodes where they are rubbing gel all over each other.
Demons and Terra Prime had nearly half of each episode devoted to Travis Mayweather. They just sucked, which is why no one remembers he was one of the main characters.
BTW, Demons and Terra Prime were from season 4 -- a highly overrated season, imo. Season 4 had some good (The Forge, Awakening, Borderlands, Observer Effect, etc.) and not so good (Storm Front I, II, Daedalus. Bound, Home, Demons, etc.) episodes. And TOS is my favorite of the ST series.
BTW, Demons and Terra Prime were from season 4 -- a highly overrated season, imo. Season 4 had some good (The Forge, Awakening, Borderlands, Observer Effect, etc.) and not so good (Storm Front I, II, Daedalus. Bound, Home, Demons, etc.) episodes. And TOS is my favorite of the ST series.
