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Why don't Disco Klingons sing?

Stipulated: morality is an intersubjective construct. No quarrel with that.

However, I don't think of inalienable human (or sapient) rights as a moral claim, per se. It derives from philosophy, certainly, but not necessarily from ethics. My own take (informed by history, sociology, psychology, and political science) is that it's a logical prerequisite for any civilization that develops beyond a certain level of complexity — without the diversification and innovation that comes with individual self-determination, a culture can't avoid stagnation.

Put another way, I don't think the Enlightenment was just an accident, nor do I think the scientific or industrial revolutions could have happened without it.

Where exactly that threshold of sophistication is remains an open question (and some contemporary states, e.g., China, are wrestling with this sort of thing pretty seriously), but once we start talking about planetary level (or bigger!) civilizations I imagine it's pretty much unavoidable.

IOW, we hold these truths to be self-evident.
 
It's not just dogma. It happens to be CORRECT.

It is an absolute right, which cannot in any sense be refuted or denied. There is, literally, no possible opposition.
Of course it can, and has been repeatedly and at length, for all of human history to date. The idea that we are all equal was literally laughable at one point. There are responses to the American Declaration of Independence that mock the idea as self-evidently ridiculous. In what, they asked, are we created equal? Strength? Intelligence? Skills? Nobility of birth? Even in more modern times it is hardly a universal idea. Saudi Arabia have a functioning modern society which shuns the idea entirely. And it could be argued that our own societies, while proclaiming this truth, betray the principles of it on a regular basis.

It hardly needs to be said that I believe in the equality of all, but it is folly to regard it as self-evident, universal or absolute, or that there can be no opposition. That stops us arguing for it, fighting for it, and challenging with well prepared argument those who do dispute it. The Federation have embraced human rights (cue Azetbur) but that doesn't mean that there would be no opposition to the idea, either in word or in deed, from within the Federation and from her allies and rivals. As the topic is Klingons, they clearly do not accept this idea as indisputable truth - they practise survival of the strongest, or something close to it. They have a nobility of sorts, through their Great Houses, and value strength above anything else. We are told in STVI that they only considered peace with the Federation because they had little other choice.

The Federation itself has also been willing to walk away from instances where equality and human rights are not observed - in fact, they have taken the view that they will not interfere to impose those views, and are happy to ally and deal with people who oppose their views entirely (this is particularly evident in the Original Series, think episodes like Friday's Child, but pops up in most of the series along the way). They've also shown a willingness to ignore their own doctrines when security is at stake - think I, Borg or Journey's End. It appears that, to the Federation, inalienable rights is a qualified, not absolute, position.

Put another way, I don't think the Enlightenment was just an accident, nor do I think the scientific or industrial revolutions could have happened without it.
Not sure I agree. The industrial revolution occurred when Americans still kept slaves. In fact, it is in large part the new machinery which finally allowed the economy to survive the abolition of slavery. You're confusing cause and effect.

Plus, of course, there are still slaves the world over, more than there were at the height of the cotton plantations. Our 'enlightenment' may have stopped the auctions by the docks, but it hasn't stopped us turning our critical minds off when we pay far less than can possibly be viable for a car wash. There is of course a difference between the illicit and illegal use of slaves and the open support of it in a society, but the mentality of 'self evident' equality which would prevent it happening at all is far from universal.
 
Plus, of course, there are still slaves the world over, more than there were at the height of the cotton plantations. Our 'enlightenment' may have stopped the auctions by the docks, but it hasn't stopped us turning our critical minds off when we pay far less than can possibly be viable for a car wash. There is of course a difference between the illicit and illegal use of slaves and the open support of it in a society, but the mentality of 'self evident' equality which would prevent it happening at all is far from universal.
Moreover, at least to my view, the "enlightenment" attitude has produced the idea that we are incapable of the savagery of our ancestors even as it continues on out of sight.

Self-evident indeed.
 
Stipulated: morality is an intersubjective construct. No quarrel with that.

However, I don't think of inalienable human (or sapient) rights as a moral claim, per se. It derives from philosophy, certainly, but not necessarily from ethics. My own take (informed by history, sociology, psychology, and political science) is that it's a logical prerequisite for any civilization that develops beyond a certain level of complexity — without the diversification and innovation that comes with individual self-determination, a culture can't avoid stagnation.

Put another way, I don't think the Enlightenment was just an accident, nor do I think the scientific or industrial revolutions could have happened without it.

Where exactly that threshold of sophistication is remains an open question (and some contemporary states, e.g., China, are wrestling with this sort of thing pretty seriously), but once we start talking about planetary level (or bigger!) civilizations I imagine it's pretty much unavoidable.

IOW, we hold these truths to be self-evident.

It's fine to make that statement in the real world, but it clearly does not hold in the Trek world. The Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, Dominion, etc do not hold values in any way analogous to the enlightenment, although from in-canon history, the Cardassians may have at one point. Regardless, they all built powerful space empires despite not holding individual self-determination in high regard.

Of course, there could be within universe biological differences in the brain structure of some races which mean development of "enlightenment ideals" isn't a prerequisite to getting their shit together. However, Trek has traditionally leaned toward nurture, implying that the differences we see in the minds (but not the bodies) of the races are in large part due to culture rather than genes. I think this is because alien cultures are generally supposed to be allegorical looks at other human cultures, meaning if we explore a race which is fundamentally alien due to a difference in DNA it potentially raises uncomfortable, eugenics-style conclusions. Also because from a character standpoint arguing that Garak is shifty and distrustful because "it's in his nature" isn't anywhere near as interesting as exploring his backstory in exactly the same way one would do with a human.

Thus, brutal authoritarian empires with no respect for individual rights actually work in the Trek world. Well, work well enough to rival the Federation, but never quite take it over anyway.
 
Of course it can, and has been repeatedly and at length, for all of human history to date. The idea that we are all equal was literally laughable at one point. There are responses to the American Declaration of Independence that mock the idea as self-evidently ridiculous. In what, they asked, are we created equal? Strength? Intelligence? Skills? Nobility of birth? Even in more modern times it is hardly a universal idea. Saudi Arabia have a functioning modern society which shuns the idea entirely. And it could be argued that our own societies, while proclaiming this truth, betray the principles of it on a regular basis. ... The industrial revolution occurred when Americans still kept slaves. In fact, it is in large part the new machinery which finally allowed the economy to survive the abolition of slavery. You're confusing cause and effect.
To be sure, I'm not claiming that the idea of individual self-determination is anywhere near perfectly realized, in the modern world or for that matter even in the UFP. I'm just proposing that the existence of the concept, and its realization to at least some degree, is necessary for a society to break through certain developmental plateaus.

(Conversely, the concept of "nobility of birth" is extremely useful for a society that's looking to maintain a rigid hierarchy of social roles, but is pretty much laughably useless in a pluralistic technological society.)

It's fine to make that statement in the real world, but it clearly does not hold in the Trek world. The Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, Dominion, etc do not hold values in any way analogous to the enlightenment, although from in-canon history, the Cardassians may have at one point. Regardless, they all built powerful space empires despite not holding individual self-determination in high regard.
Granted, we are hobbled in the real world by having an N of one when it comes to technologically advanced societies (and an N of zero, for that matter, when it comes to societies united on a planetary scale). Obviously it's impossible for us to do any sort of traditional statistical analysis. However, a (psuedo?) Bayesian approach might at least allow some provisional conclusions about the relative dependency of certain outcomes on certain priors.

It's not at all unusual for societies to stagnate, even ones that are relatively advanced for their historical era. It happened to ancient Egypt; it happened to medieval China. Stability trumps progress. When a society is focused inward, it makes perfect sense for those in power to suppress economic, philosophical, and technological change; when it is focused outward those things confer competitive advantage. (Consider, e.g., aspects of Jared Diamond's thesis in Guns, Germs, and Steel.)

Western (that is to say, European) civilization is fundamentally responsible for what we think of as the modern world. (This isn't praise per se, much less a claim that it was driven by modern ideals; it's just an observation.) It's probably fair to say that other societies around the world (east Asian ones, for example, and various rising post-colonial nations elsewhere) would not be modernized had they not come in contact with European expansion. (Again, I am not by any means offering a defense of colonialism here, on moral or any other grounds; merely observing historical patterns.)

And how did Western society advance? Well, the aftermath of the Black Plague in the 14th century greatly increased labor mobility (as demand exceeded supply), which started undermining the rigid social structures of feudalism. Then came the Renaissance and (especially important!) the development of the printing press in the 15th century, and the age of exploration and the Reformation in the 16th, all of which dramatically increased the flow of new trade goods and, more importantly, new ideas. And like a series of dominoes (or, more accurately, sequential feedback loops), we got the scientific revolution in the 17th century, the Enlightenment in the 18th, the industrial revolution in the 19th, and the rapid progress on multiple fronts that characterized the 20th.

My proposition here is that these were interdependent trends. That is to say, that it is far more difficult (arguably impossible) to imagine the modern world arising without Enlightenment ideals in the mix (which, by way of radically oversimplifying for purposes of the discussion at hand, we can sum up as "individual self-determination"), or, conversely, to imagine the Enlightenment happening without leading to kind of political and technological progress that characterizes the modern world.

How then to explain the advancement of the various races in the Trekverse? In-universe, it's fair to say that Klingons were stagnating until they confronted the aggression of the Hur'q, and that much of both their subsequent technological advancement and their belligerent expansionism can be credited to that historical turning point. (Indeed, the idea occurs to me that in a sense Klingon culture could be seen as an example of a "cargo cult" writ large.) Romulans obviously had interstellar-level tech before they split off from Vulcan, so whatever their current political structure, that developed later (and doesn't necessarily preclude ideas of individual self-determination; after all, it appears to be at least semi-democratic, although frankly Trek canon has often been less than coherent about it). The Cardassians, as you say, have their own complicated history that may include comparable ideas. And we really don't know enough about Dominion cultural history to speculate.

All that said, it is of course possible to imagine a society advancing this way, with comparable philosophical concepts and comparable technological progress, and then suffering some sort of collapse or otherwise backsliding. For instance, Romulans isolated themselves from the rest of the galaxy (at least on the Federation side) for over a century; much like the historical Chinese "sea ban," a prolonged period of isolationism doubtless had significant impact on the direction of the culture.

Of course, there could be within universe biological differences in the brain structure of some races which mean development of "enlightenment ideals" isn't a prerequisite to getting their shit together. However, Trek has traditionally leaned toward nurture, implying that the differences we see in the minds (but not the bodies) of the races are in large part due to culture rather than genes. I think this is because alien cultures are generally supposed to be allegorical looks at other human cultures, meaning if we explore a race which is fundamentally alien due to a difference in DNA it potentially raises uncomfortable, eugenics-style conclusions. Also because from a character standpoint arguing that Garak is shifty and distrustful because "it's in his nature" isn't anywhere near as interesting as exploring his backstory in exactly the same way one would do with a human.

Thus, brutal authoritarian empires with no respect for individual rights actually work in the Trek world. Well, work well enough to rival the Federation, but never quite take it over anyway.
I agree with you here. A degree of alien diversity that is more biologically plausible would quite likely be a far less fruitful source of storytelling potential, at least in allegorical terms. (Which is not to say that I think any alien race need be treated as a monolithic "planet of hats." The complexity of a character like Garak is a good example of how to strike this balance, as is (as I've mentioned before) the way Babylon 5 developed its primary alien races).
 
These are pre-TOS Klingons. They are not supposed to sing. Kudos to the producers for not violating that particular canon item.
 
Maybe the Klingons on T'Kuvma's ship were about to sing (and did in fact sing), but they ended that scene before we saw/heard them do it.

Perhaps L'Rell sings out loud in the brig when nobody's watching.
 
I didn't see any of them drinking bloodwine either. Maybe they aren't singing because they aren't drunk?
 
"ROX-anne! You don't have to put on your bloodwine! Those days are over, you don't have to sell your bat'leth to the night!"

Shall I compare thee to a glorious day?
Thou art more feisty and more intemperate
Rough winds do shake the prickly buds of may
And Kahless' lease hath all too short a date
Sometimes too hot the blade of hell shines
And every fight from fight sometimes declines
By chance or nature's changing course untrimmed;
But thy eternal swordplay shall not fade
Nor lose possession of that bat'leth thou ow'st
So long as enemies breathe, or eyes can see,
So long kills this, and this keeps life in thee.
 
Disco Klingons don't sing, but they have been known to freestyle, and I've heard T'Kuvma can do a mean beatbox.
n7zSiez.jpg
 
Shall I compare thee to a glorious day?
Thou art more feisty and more intemperate
Rough winds do shake the prickly buds of may
And Kahless' lease hath all too short a date
Sometimes too hot the blade of hell shines
And every fight from fight sometimes declines
By chance or nature's changing course untrimmed;
But thy eternal swordplay shall not fade
Nor lose possession of that bat'leth thou ow'st
So long as enemies breathe, or eyes can see,
So long kills this, and this keeps life in thee.
gmj2UFx.jpg

Disco Klingons don't sing, but they have been known to freestyle, and I've heard T'Kuvma can do a mean beatbox.
n7zSiez.jpg
Well, that's...unfortunate.
 
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