Why does The Final Frontier get so much crap?

[drazzz52923849]

Say what you want about the filmmaking as a whole but at it's core Trek V at least tried to be about something -- "maybe God's not out there, maybe he's in here..." A quality most of Enterprise and especially Trek 2009 seemed to put on the back burner in exchanged for cool FX and titillation.

Sure, it's execution can be debated forever, but I will argue that the section of that scene in the observation lounge with Kirk urging Bones "...you know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with the wave of a magic wand..." is one of the best written, best Shatner performed Trek scenes there is.

The concept of a fundamentalist converting followers into hijacking a ship for a religious crusade would probably resonate more powerfully in today's world context as well.

If done the right way, that is...

I very much agree with this. I also think that the acting in TFF was sooo much better than the acting in TUC.

 

[number6]

I enjoy TFF for a variety of reasons, but there's no question that it was a total crapfest.

 

[Satyrquaze]

OKay it's starting to make sense...

The guy who hates Trip with a passion, loves TFF.

I'm starting to wonder if you're not from the evil mirror universe, drazzz52923849.

 

[DonIago]

^Evil mirror universe...is there a -good- mirror universe?

 

[CaptainStoner]

Say what you want about the filmmaking as a whole but at it's core Trek V at least tried to be about something -- "maybe God's not out there, maybe he's in here..." A quality most of Enterprise and especially Trek 2009 seemed to put on the back burner in exchanged for cool FX and titillation.

Sure, it's execution can be debated forever, but I will argue that the section of that scene in the observation lounge with Kirk urging Bones "...you know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with the wave of a magic wand..." is one of the best written, best Shatner performed Trek scenes there is.

The concept of a fundamentalist converting followers into hijacking a ship for a religious crusade would probably resonate more powerfully in today's world context as well.

If done the right way, that is...

Yep. Fair enough.

I agree with that as well. I'd rather have a glorious failure than an above-average success. The former path is has potential for glorious success, the latter has no such potential.
Perhaps V was a victim of IV's well executed and truly funny joviality, perhaps the humor directive was coming from people who don't write, act, or direct, perhaps perhaps. But the raw material of V is, I believe, vastly superior to that of ST09. (ducks)

 

[Ryann866]

Say what you want about the filmmaking as a whole but at it's core Trek V at least tried to be about something -- "maybe God's not out there, maybe he's in here..." A quality most of Enterprise and especially Trek 2009 seemed to put on the back burner in exchanged for cool FX and titillation.

Sure, it's execution can be debated forever, but I will argue that the section of that scene in the observation lounge with Kirk urging Bones "...you know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with the wave of a magic wand..." is one of the best written, best Shatner performed Trek scenes there is.

The concept of a fundamentalist converting followers into hijacking a ship for a religious crusade would probably resonate more powerfully in today's world context as well.

If done the right way, that is...

Yep. Fair enough.

I agree with that as well. I'd rather have a glorious failure than an above-average success. The former path is has potential for glorious success, the latter has no such potential.
Perhaps V was a victim of IV's well executed and truly funny joviality, perhaps the humor directive was coming from people who don't write, act, or direct, perhaps perhaps. But the raw material of V is, I believe, vastly superior to that of ST09. (ducks)

Totally agree with you. Trek IV was such a breakout hit and of course, the studio correctly assumed the humor and joviality was a large part of that. And that humor came naturally to a fish out of water story. Their mistake was trying to shoehorn it into a new story that was conceptually way more dark and internal. Maybe the studio bosses should never have said yes to Shatner's tale in the first place...

In fact, Shatner's original version was much darker with the crew actually meeting what they proported to be the "real God" who was actually Satan. A far cry from George & Gracie! Bennett did the right thing I think in talking Shatner down, though his ambition is admirable.

I think in the hands of a more accomplished writer -- a Nick Meyer or one could wish -- a Frank Darabont, Shatner's story could have been well processed. The reason they hired David Loughery was because of his wit and humor.

At the end of the day though, it still wouldn't be filmable for under 100 million, even in 1989 bucks...

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Guys, one point about Uhura being the one to sing and dance around naked... Did we really want William Shatner or Leonard Nimoy doing that?

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

The reason they hired David Loughery was because of his wit and humor.

I thought he was hired because he was dating Shatner's daughter — well, I don't know if that's completely true, but it was a rumor going around the 'bbs.

TFF is a guilty pleasure, like "Spock's Brain." But I've always felt Shatner had a better shot composition than two-shot, close-up Nimoy. Oh, the beautiful cinematography in the film that almost makes up for the commercial-level special effects.

And that awesome bridge design.

 

[SeerSGB]

The reason they hired David Loughery was because of his wit and humor.

I thought he was hired because he was dating Shatner's daughter — well, I don't know if that's completely true, but it was a rumor going around the 'bbs.

TFF is a guilty pleasure, like "Spock's Brain." But I've always felt Shatner had a better shot composition than two-shot, close-up Nimoy. Oh, the beautiful cinematography in the film that almost makes up for the commercial-level special effects.

And that awesome bridge design.

I will give it that. The STV bridge is one of the best of the TOS Movie bridges.

 

[LOKAI of CHERON]

I've always felt Shatner had a better shot composition than two-shot, close-up Nimoy. Oh, the beautiful cinematography in the film that almost makes up for the commercial-level special effects.

And that awesome bridge design.

100% agreed!

 

[Maurice]

...But I've always felt Shatner had a better shot composition than two-shot, close-up Nimoy. Oh, the beautiful cinematography in the film that almost makes up for the commercial-level special effects.

It's debatable how much of that was Shatner v. how much was his cinematographer: the fabulous Andrew Laszlo.

 

[Itisnotlogical]

I don't get why nobody likes it either. It's definitely the weakest of the Trek films, but it isn't the "lump of dog shit", "total crapfest", etc. that it's been described as, at least in my opinion. But then I'm not picky about most of the things you other spoiled movie goers will tear apart for two decades, either. I can take most movies with a large grain of salt (although Avatar's obvious political message would require enough sodium to poison several grown men).

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

...But I've always felt Shatner had a better shot composition than two-shot, close-up Nimoy. Oh, the beautiful cinematography in the film that almost makes up for the commercial-level special effects.

It's debatable how much of that was Shatner v. how much was his cinematographer: the fabulous Andrew Laszlo.

True.

 

[Gojira]

I have noticed the trash talk about Star Trek V and i disagree with all of it. I really liked TFF and i would like to know why so many hate it. And i am aware that SOME of the special effects are bad but none movie breaking and the ones that needed to be good(the enterprise, center of the galaxy, ect.) were good. I will admit the rocket boots were terrible.

I am another one that likes TFF despite its flaws and like all movies it does have them. With the success of the Voyage Home which used humor to a good effect. The Final Frontier tried to continue the usage of humor but to a bad effect. When I saw the movie in the theater people were laughing like crazy and I really enjoyed the film. I don't think the humor holds up well today. Sometimes things are very funny when viewed with a group of people but not so funny when you're sitting buy yourself watching it on a DVD.

I think the film has a very good story and I do like that aspect of it. If they had stuck to a more serious tone I think the movie would have been a little better.

 

[Anji]

Dialogue needed tightening and the pacing was too slow.

Not to mention Shatner's inability to realize his film crew was right when they told him the floor numbers in the elevator scene were backwards. That's one really, really, really big flaw that he should've trusted his crew on.

 

[DonIago]

Ugh, yeah, the floor numbers are just embarrassing.

 

[Roboturner913]

I always liked it too. Always got a bad rap....some criticisms are justified, but come on, nitpicking about deck numbers is just dumb. TVH had the same exact problems where it came to special effects and bad forced humor but for some reason it escapes the disdain that TFF gets.

The interaction between Spock, Kirk and McCoy is fantastic and really gets to the heart of the original series.And the story is actually a pretty classic sci-fi concept. Whether you believe in God or not, what is more "Star Trek" than searching for the secret of existence?

To me TFF ranks ahead of Insurrection, Nemesis and TVH. Depending on the mood I'm in on a given day I might rank it ahead of TMP.

 

[DonIago]

Perhaps we nitpick about deck numbers because it's such an -obvious- error and would seem to be relatively easy to have fixed before release.

Which effects in TVH do you consider to be lacking?

I don't consider the change in humor to be a huge issue, but I do think it works better in TVH than in TFF.

I won't criticize the interactions of the Big Three with each other, but by this point I really prefer the ensemble tone more than the Big Three tone.

I think whether I'd watch TFF or TMP would depend on whether I wanted to risk being bored or risk wincing in agony at bad humor and bad FX.

 

[Roboturner913]

Perhaps we nitpick about deck numbers because it's such an -obvious- error and would seem to be relatively easy to have fixed before release.

Ok, yeah, maybe it would've been easy to fix - but they didn't fix it. So what? It has no bearing whatsoever on the story or the film as a whole.

If you are watching a movie (any movie) and seeking out things like this as criticisms, you are watching for all the wrong reasons. (not you personally, the universal you)

JMO

As for your other point about effects, the only thing I thought was done well was the probe. Everything else was pretty mediocre. Look as the flight scenes with the BOP and the E-A at the end. Pretty cheesy. The Saratoga scene was completely lame and the time warp/dream sequence was cringe=worthy. If you have a big problem with the effects in TFF then there's no way you can defend most of the stuff in TVH.

 

[Cadet49]

I liked this movie - the jokes were lame, but it was the movie with the original cast that I felt most felt a nostalgic tip of the hat to the original series that these movies were based on: a mind-controlling alien hijacking the Enterprise, fistfights and jail cell escapes, Klingons, and Captain Kirk going toe-to-toe with an alien trying to pose as a deity - all classic Trek! After the intensity of ST II and III, which I also enjoyed, I found this movie a lot of fun - though yes, some of the characterization was a bit off, and the "Enterprise is in need of repairs" jokes and one-liners were a bit overdone...it was a fun movie that tried to return to the "exploring the final frontier" theme that I liked about early Trek.