I am sure the Romulans only want to keep the Federation from having the latest and greatest of invisiblilty tech. Starfleet ships seem to have some ability to hide themselves from contempory long range scanners.
Why does the Federation make such bad treaties?
- Thread starter The Overlord
- Start date
I am sure the Romulans only want to keep the Federation from having the latest and greatest of invisiblilty tech. Starfleet ships seem to have some ability to hide themselves from contempory long range scanners.
When the Federation-Cardassian treaty was put together there were other things happening at the same time. The Romulans were starting to reassert themselves into regional affairs, the Klingon Empire was politically unstable due to internal (and as it turns out external) forces due to a new leader and probably most importantly the emergence of the Borg as a threat to the Federation.
The Federation might have accepted poorer terms to expedient the treaty so they could strengthen its focus on the Romulan Neutral Zone, keep an eye on the Klingons and also a look out towards the Delta Quadrant for the Borg.
The Federation might have accepted poorer terms to expedient the treaty so they could strengthen its focus on the Romulan Neutral Zone, keep an eye on the Klingons and also a look out towards the Delta Quadrant for the Borg.
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And yet they had to devote resources to capturing the Maquis and the Cardies still had territorial ambitions against the Federation so clearly that didn't work for them. Despite this treaty, they still had to devote resources to stopping various Cardassian plots against them and bring the Maquis to heel. If the point of the treaty was deal with the Cardassian situation and efficiently, it still failed.
It seems like that just emboldened them to cause more trouble. The fact that this treaty failed completely in less then a decade and the Cardies fought against the Federation in the Dominion war, with the Dominion in Cardassia being a much bigger threat to the Federation then Romulans or the Klingons, it failed on a spectacular level.
We don't know what was happening in other parts of the Federation when these treaties were signed. Did the Federation and Starfleet have other pressures on them on another border. After all we know around the time the DMZ was created the Federation spanned in the region of 8000ly. A vast amount of space to patrol and defend against threats, true we don't know how big the other powers are but it would taken even more manpower to rule by force. So they might be sammler than the Federation
What kind of pressure? You can't just uproot people whenever you feel like it or destroy their livelihood without any compensations...that is if they are willing to accept the compensations. Unless they were doing something really, really evil, the Federation had no ground to force them to do anything, or anybody for that matter if they value democracy above all else. Of course, morally that's the way it should have been. The Federation acted like they are morally superior to these people and turned a blind eye to their problems. The Federation is responsible for a lot of things that is considered an outright violation of human rights. Remember when they tried to removed the Bakus by beaming them away without their knowledge. They act like they've never done anything wrong and do things that are morally and ethically questionable all for the name of greater good. Whatever happened to liberty in the 24th century. Forcing your view on other people is wrong no matter what your opinion is!
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Been a while since a say Insurrection, but from what I recall and I might be wrong), the Admiral in charge neglected to give a full account of the situation. So a fully informed decision could not be made.
^I think you'll find even today governments tend to make decisions based on what is best for the majority. Perhaps not signing the treaties could have led to a war costing potential millions of lives, for the sake a few thousand people being asked to relcoate.
But yourself in that position.
^I think you'll find even today governments tend to make decisions based on what is best for the majority. Perhaps not signing the treaties could have led to a war costing potential millions of lives, for the sake a few thousand people being asked to relcoate.
But yourself in that position.
Really, so we can relocate people and uproot them whenever we want. If you make exceptions, you will constantly do it. Some Poles would rather died than ratted out their Jewish neighbors to the Nazis. All that evil needs is a good man to do nothing! The government has no saying when it comes to private properties and land and people personal affairs. You see the problems?
This is what I mean, we hear about the Feds in the DMZ but we never found out what happened to the colonies that the Feds actually formally gave to the Cardassians.
We also never found out what happened to the Cardassian colonies the Feds got complete control over.
The Cardies violated it in "The Maquis", but then the Feds knew what they were up to and stopped them but the Maquis themselves didn't stop. We never found out what happened to the armed Cardassian colonists, so for all we know the Maquis became the only aggressors in the DMZ attacking unarmed Cardies.
The writers couldn't make up their minds over whether they were Fed citizens or not.
But the Feds were still the ones who sent that team, the Feds were the overt aggressors there looking for weapons that didn't exist. It was a trap, but the Feds fell into it and came off looking bad because of it. WE know the truth, but the Feds came off looking the bad guy in that situation.
I never said it didn't have problems, but you are basically saying it's better to have a war that could potentially kill millions of people, for the sake of swapping some territory. Remember that the colonists were given a choice to either relocate or give up their Federation citizenship.
The fact that the Cardassians ignored the treaty somewhat doesn't mean the Federation should.
And yes the Government does have a say in peoples affairs or did you miss all those laws, you just can't go around killing people because you have a personal disagreement with them without facing the consequences. Today the government can force you to sell your home to them if they need the land for something.
The fact that the Cardassians ignored the treaty somewhat doesn't mean the Federation should.
And yes the Government does have a say in peoples affairs or did you miss all those laws, you just can't go around killing people because you have a personal disagreement with them without facing the consequences. Today the government can force you to sell your home to them if they need the land for something.
The government has no ground in taking away your personal property and have no say in people's personal affairs. You are treading on dangerous ground if allow the government to do that. They can't force you to give your job, your car and house and move to another country because they think you don't belong in your country. That is basically what they were doing to the colonists. the colonists didn't do anything wrong. The Federation is so weak and corrupted that they can't even protect their own people and are willing to even kill a few to save their asses. I don't think the Cardassians, Klingons, Romulans and Dominions would want to become part of Federation for this reason. There is a serious problem with the Federation! Perhaps they think they are backward people...perhaps they are superstitious little red men.
The fact that the Federation signs "bad" treaties makes the Trekverse more realistic IMO. Treaties are always full of compromises and compromises are never ideal or satisfactory solutions. But it's still preferable to waging all-out war all the time. (I suppose the Terran Empire from the Mirror Universe chose that other path. 
)
If you think about it, the Federation is also in a bad strategic position. They're practically surrounded by real or potential enemies... the Romulans, the Cardassians, later on also the Borg and the Dominion. The Klingon Empire is also an pretty unstable/unreliable entity which first fought a civil war (TNG) and then a brief war against the Federation five years later (DS9).
It's no wonder that the Federation decides to focus on developing defense strategies against superior enemies like the Borg and the Dominion, while trying to maintain stable relationships with its more "mundane" rivals. This is if you want to avoid a fully militarized society.
)If you think about it, the Federation is also in a bad strategic position. They're practically surrounded by real or potential enemies... the Romulans, the Cardassians, later on also the Borg and the Dominion. The Klingon Empire is also an pretty unstable/unreliable entity which first fought a civil war (TNG) and then a brief war against the Federation five years later (DS9).
It's no wonder that the Federation decides to focus on developing defense strategies against superior enemies like the Borg and the Dominion, while trying to maintain stable relationships with its more "mundane" rivals. This is if you want to avoid a fully militarized society.
War is never good! But sometime you have to stick out your neck for other people if it's the moral thing to do. It's like when friend is in trouble you don't run away if it's the right thing to do. I think it makes the federation vein and would kill other alien races if it suited them; which they do as shown. It's like the Federation have no moral quarries about killing anyone that stand in their ways, be it Romulans or even their own citizens. I think it makes them hate the Federation even more. A lot of Polish people got in trouble because they refused to rat out their Jewish neighbors to the Nazis. They stand up for what they believe is the right thing to do and risk their necks for their friends.
You're missing my point. Going to war over the DMZ colonies would inevitably weaken the Federation and hence possibly invite the Romulans or even the Klingons to attack.
Even more important: The Federation would have to face the Dominion and the Borg (First Contact) in a much more atritioned state, having just come out of another potentially costly conflict with the Cardassians and all.
In the UK it's called a Compulsory Purchase Order
In the US it's called Eminent Domain
Different countries have different names.
There a lot of practices that are outdated. For example, forcing and drafting people into the military is also a form of slavery and technically illegal under the U.S. Constitution and yet the U.S. government ignored it during the Vietnam War so they can carried out their agenda; they didn't really care what happened to the people who were forced to fight for them. If they hadn't been able to draft so many people into the military, they would't have been able to start a war that is supposed to be illegal, spending the Americans taxed dollars and forcing people to die for some group of people's ideology and believes. The only time when people can be forcibly draft into the military to serve is when the country is jeopardy and under attack. If the warlords can't draft people into their military, they wouldn't be able to start a war with neighboring countries or kill their own people. Make sense?!
Any law can be ammeneded.
And if as you say it is illegal to draft under the US constitution then it's illegal and can't be done no matter the circumstances. You say it's ok in cedrtain circumstances. Following that reasoning signing away territoral rights is ok under certain circumstances.
You may disagree with the practice may think it's outdated but the fact is that there are laws that allow a government to buy your properity from you whether you like it or not. You were saying they can't I was merely highlighting the fact that they can.
As for the treaty of Algeron it is implied it kept the peace for almost 60 years aside from a few skirmishes.
And if as you say it is illegal to draft under the US constitution then it's illegal and can't be done no matter the circumstances. You say it's ok in cedrtain circumstances. Following that reasoning signing away territoral rights is ok under certain circumstances.
You may disagree with the practice may think it's outdated but the fact is that there are laws that allow a government to buy your properity from you whether you like it or not. You were saying they can't I was merely highlighting the fact that they can.
As for the treaty of Algeron it is implied it kept the peace for almost 60 years aside from a few skirmishes.
Your just lucky it's not your ass that is on the line! Kept them at peace for nearly 60 years?! Psss! Please! ST is just a science fiction show! For all the plotting and scheming that they've done, I'm surprise they weren't at war on TNGt to begin with... This is a kind of excuse they used to start the Vietnam War, and the Civil WAr. Who cares about those Vietnamese? They are wrong and therefore should accept the fact that we can bomb their country at will. This is why it is important to respect other people's opinion if we believe in democracy and liberty. People have the right to make their own mistakes, and you have no rights to force them to do what they don't want to do. If you believe in freedom and liberty, you should respect their opinions. This is why there are so many wars because people dont respect other people's point of views.
