In the original script in TSFS there was to be a scene with the KBoP in a hangar with Scotty as they were examining it.
Why Does Saavik Say Behind On Vulcan?
- Thread starter Mojochi
- Start date
And was Spock ever told?
Yes Vulcan does posses a Federation Membership, however Vulcan (like all Federation Members) remained a sovereign entity. If the Federation tried to arrest the former Enterpise crew while they were in Vulcan territory, the Vulcan government would have told the Federation to remember it's place in the arrangement.
A question that just occurs to me from this:
Why is Saavik on Vulcan anyway? yes, she was there at the end of SFS, but that was three months ago.
At the end of SFS Saavik is a serving Starfleet officer on [temporary] assignment to USS Grissom, which Starfleet will presumably have listed as something like "Missing; scheduled reports overdue; reported destroyed by second hand sources." As the only first-hand witnesses to Grissom's fate left are Saavik and Maltz, you'd think she would be ordered to report back to Starfleet for debriefing at the enquiry-into-loss ASAP.
Maybe she's done all that and then come back to Vulcan in the intervening three months. If not, she must be AWOL too.
Why is Saavik on Vulcan anyway? yes, she was there at the end of SFS, but that was three months ago.
At the end of SFS Saavik is a serving Starfleet officer on [temporary] assignment to USS Grissom, which Starfleet will presumably have listed as something like "Missing; scheduled reports overdue; reported destroyed by second hand sources." As the only first-hand witnesses to Grissom's fate left are Saavik and Maltz, you'd think she would be ordered to report back to Starfleet for debriefing at the enquiry-into-loss ASAP.
Maybe she's done all that and then come back to Vulcan in the intervening three months. If not, she must be AWOL too.
Good point! - and what ever happened to Maltz?
I think perhaps he ended up in court somewhere (like New York)
Honestly, they could have left her on the Bounty where she could have helped Scotty build the holding tank. Heck, for that matter, someone should have stayed back on the Bounty for security reasons, instead of everyone leaving the ship abandoned in the park.
It seems a complete report on what happened in ST3 was delivered to Starfleet by the time of ST4, one way or another; Saavik could have testified on everything she knew about the loss of the Grissom in connection with that.
Supposedly the information presented to the Council in ST4 would come from Kirk and company, who would have been in possession of flight recorder data from the BoP. Klingons might have contributed, too, though, with telemetry from the BoP, and with the Genesis promotional tapes, which the UFP side might have been reluctant to make public. Sharing and pooling of material would in any case appear evident in the opening Council scene.
Saavik staying behind could be taken in several ways, one of which is that she had resigned from Starfleet for good. If she's not there with Sarek in the final Council scene, it's unlikely she would be involved with Starfleet in any way - everybody else even remotely involved is there, after all! That is, unless we assume the scene takes place immediately after our heroes have changed into dry clothes, leaving no time for Saavik (or Amanda or whoever) to come over from Vulcan. And I think that after the Probe visit, Earth would have better things to do than hold this trial, for a couple of days at least.
Timo Saloniemi
Supposedly the information presented to the Council in ST4 would come from Kirk and company, who would have been in possession of flight recorder data from the BoP. Klingons might have contributed, too, though, with telemetry from the BoP, and with the Genesis promotional tapes, which the UFP side might have been reluctant to make public. Sharing and pooling of material would in any case appear evident in the opening Council scene.
Saavik staying behind could be taken in several ways, one of which is that she had resigned from Starfleet for good. If she's not there with Sarek in the final Council scene, it's unlikely she would be involved with Starfleet in any way - everybody else even remotely involved is there, after all! That is, unless we assume the scene takes place immediately after our heroes have changed into dry clothes, leaving no time for Saavik (or Amanda or whoever) to come over from Vulcan. And I think that after the Probe visit, Earth would have better things to do than hold this trial, for a couple of days at least.
Timo Saloniemi
Offed himself first chance he got, without telling Starfleet anything (and praying Kirk forgot to tell anyone about sparing him). Personal honor and the continued status of whatever family he left behind in the Empire demanded nothing less.
That would have been a crying shame, not to mention "a waste of material" (to use her mentor's words). That said, she could be staying on Vulcan at Amanda's (aka the ambassador's wife's) personal request - she is practically family, after all! And there was one other notable absence in that courtroom...
That first courtroom scene (inc. deleted dialogue) made it pretty clear Kirk and the crew had been tried and convicted in absentia - it was already all over but the sentencing. (And if it wasn't, Kirk pleading guilty certainly moved things straight to it.) Presuming a panicked overnight Federation Council meeting and a call up to Spacedock ("Hey, how fast can you paint over the Yorktown's name and NCC number?"), and giving Gillian Taylor some time to get acquainted with some local science types and apply for a job...yeah, two or three days sounds about right.
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Hopefully he managed that before the ship reached Vulcan. Somehow I think Vulcan interr... umm, foreign visitor liaisons would be experts at keeping their guests from harming themselves (out of purely Vulcanitarian reasons, of course) even if the very informative visits ended up being decades long.
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
It was also in the cut prologue scene scripted for ST VI (Uhura delivering a lecture, Chekov playing cards with a Betazoid, and Scotty with the salvaged Bounty), in which Kirk gathers all the old crew for one last adventure.
IIRC, Denny Martin Flinn later used that unfilmed prologue as the beginning of "The Fearful Summons"?
According to one of the novelizations, he committed ritual suicide.
According to the introduction to the "Klingon-English Dictionary", he helped Marc Okrand with research.
According to a fan film I once made, Saavik sprung him from his Vulcan detention cell and he stowed away on the Bounty and stayed on Earth, visiting a Star Trek convention.
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com.au/2008/08/free-maltz-as-i-mentioned-recently-ive.html
1: Maltz behind bars by Therin of Andor, on Flickr
Admittedly Demora was shoehorned into Generations, but I wouldn't've had a problem if in Star Trek V, Sulu and Chekov had been having a barbeque with their wives and kids when they got the call to duty. The idea that Chekov, Uhura, Spock and Scotty never had children of their own is hard to swallow -- one or two, maybe, but half the cast? They aren't monks.
When the scene had been written for Kirk, Spock and McCoy, the line was "When did Chekov have time..."
When the scene was written for Kirk, Scotty and Chekov, the line became "When did Sulu have time..."
Perhaps not, but STAR TREK does seem to demand a high price of its Bridge Crew characters. Consider Captain Kirk's observation in THE FINAL FRONTIER - bless its cotton socks, all five of them! - where he reminds Dr. McCoy, "other people have families, Bones. Not us." Now, admittedly, there is room for interpretation, considering the generality of such a statement. This is where context becomes so important, and as such, what Kirk seems to be implying is that if STARFLEET wanted you to have a spouse, it would've issued you one.
Consider how, in STAR TREK: The Next Generation, Commander William T. Riker didn't marry the love of his life until he was well into middle-age. Chief O'Brien, on the other hand, did get married, as it was the only way to show us his life outside of the Transporter Room. And though Keiko did have her little moments here and there, even the occassional episode focusing on her, she was mainly there to make Mrs. O'Brien's son Myles' life miserable. In fact, even this took a backseat in DS9, to O'Brien's bromance with Dr. Bashir.
And then there's Saavik who's only semblence of Family Life is the implication that she's pregnant with Genesis-Spock's Pon Farr Child, only to be broomed under the carpet so that Proper Spock can resume his own bromance on the ENTERPRISE-A. Keeping STAR TREK heroes single for their Life or Death struggles and "Babe" or "Hunk" of the Week romances is really The Nature of the Beast, here. Seeing these characters after many decades as old people with these unannounced children from who knows what significant other, or cloning proceedure ... there's no hype in that.
Well, they had enough to crew a whole starship in TOS (The Intrepid), so at least around 430 as of 2268. Since Spock was supposedly the first Vulcan to join the Federation Starfleet (18 years earlier), his entry into the Academy must've blown apart some social/cultural taboo keeping Vulcans (around his age, slightly older?) from signing up and they did so big-time in his wake. Add almost twenty years to that, the number's gotta be somewhere in the low thousands by ST-IV. Probably mainly centered around a few other all-Vulcan ships (either science vessels or mainline ships based around the Vulcan sector), but a few scattered officers on other vessels like Tuvok and Valeris.
We never learned whether the Intrepid was a Starfleet ship and her crew on Starfleet payroll. And although in "Court Martial", another, decidedly Starfleet-operated ship named Intrepid was mentioned (and, in the redone version, shown), it could have been a wholly different vessel.
Nor did we ever learn that Spock would have been the first Vulcan in Starfleet. Heck, we didn't even learn he would be the only Vulcan aboard Kirk's vessel! That's just fandom assertions, while some Trek novelists have assumed the opposite and populated the Enterprise with occasional full Vulcans (who naturally want little or nothing to do with the half-breed!).
Timo Saloniemi
Nor did we ever learn that Spock would have been the first Vulcan in Starfleet. Heck, we didn't even learn he would be the only Vulcan aboard Kirk's vessel! That's just fandom assertions, while some Trek novelists have assumed the opposite and populated the Enterprise with occasional full Vulcans (who naturally want little or nothing to do with the half-breed!).
Timo Saloniemi
I don't think there was ever such a scene in a TSFS script. It makes no dramatic sense in that film.
Maybe they weren't considered high priority?
What did they really do that was so bad that would require anything but letting them turn themselves in?
That's so lame, that Klingon Viking goofball shit hadn't really taken hold yet, Maltz probably retired to Hawaii and has his own restaurant and tiki bar.
At least he didn't end up driving a taxi like his old boss.
Remember, Kirk said he'd kill him later. Later came, and Kirk killed him.
Correct. The scene was written for ST VI.
Kirk did apply "USS" on a single occasion to the name Intrepid, during the majority of the episode and in everyone elses dialog it was just "the Intrepid." The USS could have been a verbal mistake on Kirk's part.
If the Intrepid were a Vulcan "registered" starship," there would be no reason that Starfleet couldn't also have a starship of the same name. At one point both the US and UK navies had ships name Enterprise.
As a supposed proper Klingon, wouldn't Maltz's first duty to be to at least attempt to reacquire control of the BOP? And if barred from that to then return to the Empire from Vulcan to report? It easily could have been Maltz who informed the Empire of the details that the Klingon ambassador used at the beginning of The Voyage Home.
Maltz committing suicide would be him shirking his duty.
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