Why do you suppose... ?

[Jedi Marso]

Why do you suppose studios are so reluctant to adapt previously published material for movies and TV shows?

In the case of Trek, you had the entire novel-verse to draw upon, especially in the case of the 24th Century, when looking for story ideas to adapt for TV shows and movies. While the quality varies, some of the stuff is actually very good and accomplishes things like bringing Data back from the dead in workable, well thought-out ways.

Star Trek Generations came out in '94,. the same year the novel Federation by the Reeves-Stevens was published. We all know which was the better Crossover story, and which one should have been the movie.

In SW, the sequel trilogy had already been almost perfectly written by Tim Zahn decades before. Age of the actors aside, they were good to go if they'd just used and adapted what was already there. Why not pay Zahn instead of whoever wrote the dreck that we got? They were gonna have to pay someone. Same with Disney's desire to make a Rogue Squadron movie, when they have a whole series of excelllent comic and novel arcs to draw on courtesy of Mike Stackpole.

It seems that in his era of creative bankruptcy on the part of TV and movie studios, they are consistently passing up opportunities to adapt well written, well thought-out material, much of which is beloved by the fans.

Why do you think that is? Especially since someone who writes a script from scratch will have to be paid residuals just like someone whose material is adapted.

 

[Timofnine]

I think that the lit-verse should be fair game. If they can make Harry Potter books in to movies and series I do not not know why they cannot do the same with Trek.

As long as they are canon, though.

 

[Jedi Marso]

I think that the lit-verse should be fair game. If they can make Harry Potter books in to movies and series I do not not know why they cannot do the same with Trek.

As long as they are canon, though.

Seems to me something from the lit-verse adapted onto the big or small screen is now super-canon. Is that a thing? Can we have 'super-canon?'

 

[Ovation]

Who do you think writes adaptations? It’s very rarely the author of the original source. It’s very, very often a screenwriter who also produces original scripts for other projects. Also, adaptations are not required to be faithful to a given source.

So, no money saved, and no guarantee of success (however one wants to measure success). All that said, I have no particular objection to adapting a novel but I certainly wouldn’t expect it to be automatically superior to an original script.

 

[Jedi Marso]

All that said, I have no particular objection to adapting a novel but I certainly wouldn’t expect it to be automatically superior to an original script.

Except in cases where we already know it to be true, like Federation vs. Generations or The Zahn Trilogy in SW vs. The Sequel Trilogy. I know opinions will vary, but I think a poll would back up the contention by a large margin.

 

[Timofnine]

Seems to me something from the lit-verse adapted onto the big or small screen is now super-canon. Is that a thing? Can we have 'super-canon?'

I think that most of the lit-verse which I have read has done it’s best to honour canon and ‘fit in’ with continuity whilst being respectful to characters - especially those written mid series that could not mess with things *too* much and annoy the studios. The novels have all been written pretty much by actual fans as far as I know, not script writers who only wanted to get a name for themselves having found a ‘vassal’ in which to do so through quite literally ‘hacking’ Trek. I am not criticising *all* new Trek writers btw, just some. But it is respectful criticism, as I am sure that *some* of the worse nu-Trek writers could write *really* good generic action or drama shows and movies, but maybe were not quite suited for Star Trek. I will not mention any names.

I’m not talking about all extended universe books, btw, such as the ridiculous (yet still kind of fun!) novels by Shatner headlined by The Return. Though saying that… Picard season 3 *has* opened up the possibilities in that particular case now, too…. Spoilers…

In conclusion, some novels are really good and deserving of adaptation, yet others not so.

 

[Ovation]

Except in cases where we already know it to be true, like Federation vs. Generations or The Zahn Trilogy in SW vs. The Sequel Trilogy. I know opinions will vary, but I think a poll would back up the contention by a large margin.

But you can’t know it to be true unless there’s a script actually adapted from the novel in question AND it is both well written and well executed as a film (or series). All you have is speculation. Excellent books have been poorly adapted. Beloved books have been excellently adapted BUT not overly faithful to the source.

Selecting a book whose story, in book form, is more well liked than a movie using a different story is a good starting point but it by no means guarantees a better finished version on film.

 

[herofhyrule]

But you can’t know it to be true unless there’s a script actually adapted from the novel in question AND it is both well written and well executed as a film (or series). All you have is speculation. Excellent books have been poorly adapted. Beloved books have been excellently adapted BUT not overly faithful to the source.

Selecting a book whose story, in book form, is more well liked than a movie using a different story is a good starting point but it by no means guarantees a better finished version on film.

Case in point: The Lord of the Rings vs. The Hobbit. Both beloved books by the same author, both adapted by the same people, yet one adaptation was much better received than the other.

 

[F. King Daniel]

David Mack recently said in the Lit Forum that a Destiny adaptation was pitched and considered before they settled on making Picard.

Star Trek Into Darkness is more than a little like Dreadnought! by Diane Carey.

 

[fireproof78]

But you can’t know it to be true unless there’s a script actually adapted from the novel in question AND it is both well written and well executed as a film (or series). All you have is speculation. Excellent books have been poorly adapted. Beloved books have been excellently adapted BUT not overly faithful to the source.

Selecting a book whose story, in book form, is more well liked than a movie using a different story is a good starting point but it by no means guarantees a better finished version on film.

Exactly. And I think that starting from scratch sometimes appeals more than attempting an adaptation, going through the source material, producing a draft, revisiting the draft, adding more time to the process.

 

[The Wormhole]

Star Trek Generations came out in '94,. the same year the novel Federation by the Reeves-Stevens was published. We all know which was the better Crossover story, and which one should have been the movie.

Eh, that comparison doesn't work at all. Federation was likely written at the same time Generations was, with editing and prep for publication done while the movie was filming. There'd be no way to adapt that novel into a movie released in 1994. Just not doable.

In SW, the sequel trilogy had already been almost perfectly written by Tim Zahn decades before. Age of the actors aside, they were good to go if they'd just used and adapted what was already there. Why not pay Zahn instead of whoever wrote the dreck that we got?

Doesn't this example pretty much destroy your whole argument? Zahn's Thrawn trilogy is getting adapted in the upcoming Ahsoka TV series. So clearly Disney at least is open to looking to the tie-in material for onscreen content.

 

[Timofnine]

Star Trek Into Darkness is more than a little like Dreadnought! by Diane Carey.

I could not take this book seriously, I have strong feelings about the Gorn and do not believe that a Gorn could serve in Starfleet until after the Federation had passed the Metron test. Was Dreadnaught perhaps set in a parallel universe where a successful first contact with the Metron’s had been achieved, thus allowing Gorn to enter the Academy (or become enlisted) and join Starfleet?

A Gorn named Telosirizharcrede, indeed.

 

[Shawnster]

I have strong feelings about the Gorn and do not believe that a Gorn could serve in Starfleet until after the Federation had passed the Metron test.

What test? Simply saying they should wait 1,000 years before making contact isn't much of a test.

If the lit verse could have a Horta serving in Starfleet, and the real universe could have a Klingon, I don't see a Gorn Starfleet officer any worse of a stretch

 

[Timofnine]

What test? Simply saying they should wait 1,000 years before making contact isn't much of a test.

This was said because it would take humanity another 1,000 years to learn and evolve enough as a society to actually pass the test, from what was observed by the Metron’s during their first encounter with Kirk and the Enterprise during Arena. I had assumed that this was the Gorn’s first encounter with Starfleet, but it is now being written that Pike had encounters with them too, I have not watched the latest Gorn episode though.

I am not equating Gorn to the Metron’s btw, they are just a part of the Metron test.

 

[Enterprise is Great]

Last thing I want to see is one of my favorite Trek novels get thrashed in an adaptation. Most adaptations mess up the source material too much. Most of the Tom Clancy movies did a disservice to the novels. The Ben Affleck movie was barely recognizable as the novel.

 

[fireproof78]

I can't stand this "disservice" idea. The novel stands or falls on its own. The adaptation of the work stands or fall on its own.

 

[SalyutBuran]

You assume Hollywood is a for profit business it's not. It,s a vehicle for the people making it to show off so they can continue to get work.
It's why acting writing and the cgi has to be so overbearing.
Adoptions usually require subtleety on the above. Just look at any ccgi spaceship there's almost every detail of the ship has to be visible, because the person making the nacels would freak out if his work wasn't visible due to shadowing etc.

 

[FormerLurker]

You assume Hollywood is a for profit business it's not. It,s a vehicle for the people making it to show off so they can continue to get work.

What do you think a for-profit business is?

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

The adaptation of the work stands or fall on its own.

Not really true in every case, especially if the film's producers ever say and/or promote an adaptation as being "close to" or "true to", the novel source. They are counting on audiences being aware of the source and expecting a close adaptation.

 

[fireproof78]

Not really true in every case, especially if the film's producers ever say and/or promote an adaptation as being "close to" or "true to", the novel source. They are counting on audiences being aware of the source and expecting a close adaptation.

That is how I treat every single adaptation. I Iearned that at 13.