Why do they keep going back to the Kirk era?
- Thread starter Mattadd
- Start date
Bashir wasn't present in the scene when the Intendant explained the history of the MU, that was between her and Prime Kira. That scene in its entirety:
Well..Hmmm...that'snotcannnonIwin!
How come no one has ever revisited the antiverse?
That could make for an interesting science fiction story; maybe even improve upon the original.
You may be right. I'd have to rewatch the episode.
Your whole attitude here seems to be "screw the Star Trek fans, they'll get new viewers." Which, as a Star Trek fan, I take offense to. Not to mention you're ignoring a pretty important fact: Star Trek fans are going to make up a very large part of Discovery's audience. No matter how much you might wish they are going to bring in legions of new fans, it's extremely unlikely that viewers new to Star Trek are going to outnumber those of us that already like Star Trek. And CBS knows that or else they would put in on tv in the US instead of using it as a gimmick for their streaming service. They know Star Trek fans will pay for it, and the fact that US viewers have to pay for it makes it even more unlikely the show will bring tons of new fans to the Star Trek franchise.
So I would say it's hugely important what those fans think, and there is in fact a problem if you're upsetting those fans.
I was going to post a rebuttal to that, but you know what? You're right, screw the fans. Discovery needs to make Star Trek Great Again and it won't do that by showing the fans respect. And besides, it's not like there's very many of them to begin with, am I right?
They'll get new viewers, or perish.
Star Trek fans come along or they don't. A whole lot bailed on TNG in 1987 but the show built an audience and by its third year was a mainstream phenomenon ( A Time magazine cover was something in those days). And a lot of the early dissenting Trekkies got over themselves and came around.
Trek isn't about slavish attention to continuity. Never has been, can't afford to be.
But the fans do not speak with one voice, as this board proves everyday. Plenty of us old-school fans are looking forward to DISCOVERY, or are at least willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. So it's misleading to frame this as "fans" versus "newcomers." At worst, any new TREK production is going to upset SOME fans, not all of us.
As a rule, be wary when anyone claims to speak for "the fans" or, worse yet, "the true fans." Chances are, they're just speaking for themselves and those who who agree with them. Fandom is not a monolith. We have lots of different tastes and opinions and priorities . . . thank goodness!
This x1000.
Fully paid up old school fan here.
Not all that bothered about canon, much more interested in the quality.
We've speculated before there are several types of fan, particularly split between those for whom the minutiae matter and those for whom, well, it doesn't.
The truth for me is that there really is no such thing. Canon in trek is tenuous at best, often relying on fans going out of their way for years to debate ways of making literally thousands of incongruous details fit by the most circuitous routes. Commonly they end up resorting to alternate dimensions and branching timelines to make things fit.
Does the Federation use money?
Did Khan know Chekov pre Wrath of Khan?
Why had Kirk and co never seen or heard of a cloaking device?
How fast are warp engines?
How big is Starfleet, twelve ships or twelve thousand?
Why didn't the Voyager crew meet the V'ger species, or where they in fact the Borg?
The list goes on and on from tiny details to the most glaring and blatant contradictions with conflicting evidence presented by different writers in different episodes written on different days with different plot goals in mind.
The overarching themes, the things that really matter haven't changed, the idea that humanity can be better, can move forward towards a more rational future, disentangling ourselves from the bigotry and superstition and embracing the full diversity of our species. The power output of the Excelsior class's phasers depend entirely on whether any given writer wants them to win on the day.
Canon is important though-I'm sorry I just can't excited if everything contradicts everything. And I'm not even someone who thinks serialization was the best thing ever for Trek.
A defined continuity and a working "In-Universe" logic matter.
But that's my cup of tea.
A defined continuity and a working "In-Universe" logic matter.
But that's my cup of tea.
Yep fans (of anything) can be a fickle bunch. Look at the history of the previous ST shows and you might have heard "fans" using arguments like
TNG - But it's not Kirk and Spock
DSN - But it's set on a station they don't go anywhere
etc...
No one is forcing anyone to watch it, if people don't like the concept fair enough simply don't watch it. It'll find it's audiance or not.
The irony was the Terran empire had a more diverse fleet and Enterprise than the 'peace and love' Federation with its racially segregated ships.
I hope the self appointed Fan Commissariat will get this through their heads.
Don't pretend you "We are not complainers. We welcome change. We are not cynical" people don't have other grievances that are frequently expressed in this place. While people are complaining about Discovery this or that on Youtube, or Facebook, or Reddit, on TrekBBS, everyone is complaining about complainers...to the extent of threads that go over 100 pages.
Complaining on one's own behalf is one thing, complaining as if one is chairperson of the whole of fandom is another.
Why do they keep going back to Kirk era?
1) Brand recognition. Kirk and Spock are iconic characters that have become synonymous with Star Trek. They have broad public appeal which means it is easier to market the movies and shows to the general public. I think a big reason why the Marvel and DC movies do so well is name recognition. Everybody knows Captain America, Wonder Woman or Superman. You can take superheroes with huge public appeal and put them in a cool looking movie and it's instant box office gold. Nowadays, with the huge competition from big franchises, name recognition becomes even more important. You are simply not going to attract a big enough audience if you lack name recognition.
2) Writer fatigue. I think writers were getting tired by the end of Voyager. They had forgotten how to write compelling character stories and were just relying on technobabble to save the day. Voyager's bat-armor anyone? So, I think TPTB wanted to go back to a more primitive era in order to get away from the uber tech of the post-Voyager era.
3) The aesthetic and visuals were looking "old fashioned". Compare the JJ Trek movies to Nemesis and you can see the huge difference in visual style. Nemesis looks like a made for TV movie whereas JJ's Star Trek looks epic and modern. Let's face it: Nemesis was a box office bomb back when it came out, it would totally bomb now in the face of movies like Wonder Woman and Guardians of the Galaxy. TPTB saw the writing on the wall and realized they needed a big refresh. And yes, TPTB could have just refreshed the Voyager look to look more modern, but I think they preferred to go back to the Kirk era since they could combine a fresh look with iconic characters. 2 for 1!
Having said all that, I personally love the post-Voyager era in terms of tech and I so wish we could get a movie or TV show set in that era. I think with good writers and good producers, it would be possible to make it fresh again. But I can understand why they go with the Kirk era, although at this point, it is starting to get repetitive. There is more to the Star Trek universe than what Kirk and Spock did!
1) Brand recognition. Kirk and Spock are iconic characters that have become synonymous with Star Trek. They have broad public appeal which means it is easier to market the movies and shows to the general public. I think a big reason why the Marvel and DC movies do so well is name recognition. Everybody knows Captain America, Wonder Woman or Superman. You can take superheroes with huge public appeal and put them in a cool looking movie and it's instant box office gold. Nowadays, with the huge competition from big franchises, name recognition becomes even more important. You are simply not going to attract a big enough audience if you lack name recognition.
2) Writer fatigue. I think writers were getting tired by the end of Voyager. They had forgotten how to write compelling character stories and were just relying on technobabble to save the day. Voyager's bat-armor anyone? So, I think TPTB wanted to go back to a more primitive era in order to get away from the uber tech of the post-Voyager era.
3) The aesthetic and visuals were looking "old fashioned". Compare the JJ Trek movies to Nemesis and you can see the huge difference in visual style. Nemesis looks like a made for TV movie whereas JJ's Star Trek looks epic and modern. Let's face it: Nemesis was a box office bomb back when it came out, it would totally bomb now in the face of movies like Wonder Woman and Guardians of the Galaxy. TPTB saw the writing on the wall and realized they needed a big refresh. And yes, TPTB could have just refreshed the Voyager look to look more modern, but I think they preferred to go back to the Kirk era since they could combine a fresh look with iconic characters. 2 for 1!
Having said all that, I personally love the post-Voyager era in terms of tech and I so wish we could get a movie or TV show set in that era. I think with good writers and good producers, it would be possible to make it fresh again. But I can understand why they go with the Kirk era, although at this point, it is starting to get repetitive. There is more to the Star Trek universe than what Kirk and Spock did!
