Why do so many people hate 'Insurrection' so much?

[ItIsGreen]

So if I'm squatting on land that you legally purchase

Legally purchased from whom? Where anywhere in canon does it say the Federation buys planets, especially ones with people already living on them?

my rights should trump yours?

Yes, actually: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_possession
Besides which, the Ba'ku aren't squatting. They colonised the planet. Like, centuries ago.

 

[MacLeod]

So if I'm squatting on land that you legally purchase, my rights should trump yours?

When the Ba'ku settled on that Planet it was before the Federation was even founded. So they weren't squatting they got there first.

 

[Tosk]

Anyway, caught some of INS yesterday. Nothing is more laughable than when, on the "day of lightning," the phaser bolts hit the Ba'ku village bridge, and the bridge shakes like a balsa wood prop with a little spark and smoke coming out of it.

Balsa wood that can hold the weight of several people running across it? (Which I think might be the real reason it shakes.)

 

[Vger23]

Balsa wood that can hold the weight of several people running across it? (Which I think might be the real reason it shakes.)

It's reinforced with a polarized tachyon beam emitted from a deflector dish.

 

[DonIago]

When the Ba'ku settled on that Planet it was before the Federation was even founded. So they weren't squatting they got there first.

Except that I'm reasonably sure in ENT the planet is established to be considered part of Klingon space along with the rest of the Briar Patch.

Just because you see an apparently abandoned house doesn't mean you can move into it.

 

[DonIago]

Legally purchased from whom? Where anywhere in canon does it say the Federation buys planets, especially ones with people already living on them?

Yes, actually: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_possession
Besides which, the Ba'ku aren't squatting. They colonised the planet. Like, centuries ago.

I hopefully obviously didn't necessarily mean "purchase" in the literal sense. Governments trade land all the time with both citizens and other governments.

Just because the Baku landed on the planet doesn't mean it wasn't previously claimed, even if it wasn't being used at the time.

 

[Tosk]

Except that I'm reasonably sure in ENT the planet is established to be considered part of Klingon space along with the rest of the Briar Patch.

It is not. Arik specifically says that they'll head for The Briar Patch (known to the Klingons as Klach D'kel Brakt) after leaving Klingon space.

And even if it were in Klingon space in ENT, doesn't mean it would have to be in INS. Borders change.

 

[Commishsleer]

If you compare Insurrection with say the Search For Spock you can see the latter has a lot of wonderful character moments while Insurrection has too many trite cliched scenes such as the boob scene. In a lot of way the Search for Spock makes less sense but you have the wonderful mind meld, David's courage and in the end we get what we wanted - Spock restored.
Insurrection has beloved characters but they show themselves to be shallow. Shouldn't they be worried about their futures, Riker about ever being a captain, Beverley about seeing her son again. And then we have a totally unsympathetic bunch of victims - the holier than thou Baku.
In Search for Spock the crew are giving up everything for someone who they worked with for years - who literally gave his life for them and also for Kirk who also saved their lives again and again.
I know it wasn't just the Baku it was the principle for Picard but even that was muddied. Let 500 live forever and deny the benefits for millions..

 

[at Quark's]

Also, it's not as if they should need the Enterprise crew to defend themselves. Essentially, they rejected technology from their lifestyle as a choice. That's ok, but then they'll have to accept the consequences of that as well. One of these is that they may be at a huge disadvantage one day when someone comes to take the land who isn't averse to using technology.

It's not as if they were natives and never had had technology beyond what we see in the village - in that case I would have made a different judgement, but they're 'helpless' by their very own choice and seem content to let the Enterprise E do the dirty work for them.

 

[φ of π]

How exactly did the Ba'ku enforce the exile when the Son'a are the ones with the spaceships and rayguns?

 

[at Quark's]

^No idea. I imagine that those who became the Son'a took up weapons (technologically advanced or not) and in turn, the Ba'ku had to pick up similar weapons, in order to defend themselves and win. Then stripped the Son'a of everything, kicked them off the planet, and returned to their ordinary way of life.

The Son'a would have been poor refugees those first years and probably gradually had to build up (or steal, or acquire by shady actions) everything they now have... while the Ba'ku just obliviously lived their idyllic rural life on the planet surface.

But that's just how I imagine it, it could have gone differently. Perhaps the Ba'ku still had technological resources and the Son'a plundered those (though I wouldn't understand why the Ba'ku wouldn't have prevented or reversed that after their victory).

 

[MacLeod]

Also, it's not as if they should need the Enterprise crew to defend themselves. Essentially, they rejected technology from their lifestyle as a choice. That's ok, but then they'll have to accept the consequences of that as well. One of these is that they may be at a huge disadvantage one day when someone comes to take the land who isn't averse to using technology.

Your point is valid, we might except that kind of behaviour from say the Cardassians, Romulans etc.. but not the UFP.

 

[at Quark's]

^True. The Federation shouldn't have gotten involved in deceptive forced relocation in the first place.

I'm just curious though what the Ba'ku would have done had the planet happened to be in Cardassian/Romulan space and the Son'a had allied with them. Would they then finally have applied their technological capabilities, or would they just have rolled over and died (or be transported)?

 

[φ of π]

Why are the Ba'ku considered the "good guys"?

Presumably they refused to move when it was explained to them why the Federation wanted to harvest the rings to turn into medicine for billions of people?

 

[at Quark's]

On another note, I'm curious how exactly the Federation can claim the planet as their own ("we have the planet") when there is already a non-federation population living on it. There must be dozens of unaligned peoples within Federation space (some pre-warp, others definitely warp capable) and such a claim isn't presumably made about those planets.

 

[Tosk]

Presumably they refused to move when it was explained to them why the Federation wanted to harvest the rings to turn into medicine for billions of people?

Pretty big assumption...but even if they did how do you know they didn't say, "Anyone who wants to live here, come on down!"

I say the idea of destroying a natural resource to create a finite treatment is utterly ridiculous. Whoever okayed that plan needs a kick in the sisters. They're taking away an already functional treatment to try and swap it for a totally theoretical replacement.

 

[φ of π]

That's a good point. We know the radiation only worked for as long as you were in proximity of the planet. When you leave the Ba'ku system, your physical condition reverts to its previous state. (Sucks to be Geordi.)

We don't know if the treatment developed from harvesting the rings would have become permanent cures for medical conditions or would have been just as temporary only for as long as you were taking the treatments.

 

[DonIago]

My assumption has been that a concentrated dose of ring-stuff could yield permanent improvement...or at least, it was believed that it could.

 

[STEPhon IT]

There was a missed opportunity in this film to make the pretty aliens, who look more like humans, the villains. Nothing would be more exciting if Picard went all out of his way to defend these villagers to later discover they including his new girlfriend were sinister.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The movie where Picard heroically saves the middle-class white people from their rebellious children who they exiled from their gated community. And puts the wants of those people ahead of the entire Federation.

That sums up my issues with this movie.