Retcon or not, Star Wars' narrative is what it is, and no amount of complaining and/or denial is going to change that.
Why Do People Hate the Star Wars Prequel Trilogy?
- Thread starter VulcanMindBlown
- Start date
Retcon or not, Star Wars' narrative is what it is, and no amount of complaining and/or denial is going to change that.
I'm and neither complaining nor denying anything. I am observing on places were I find the narrative lacking.
Take it for what you want. I will not fill in the gaps of the six films with ancillary material because films should be able to stand on their own.
^ The films DO stand on their own (at least most of them do; TFA is unfortunately another story entirely, but this is neither the time nor the place to get into that).
So their job is to be heroes. We learn a lot about the old Republic Jedi just from the opening scene of The Phantom Menace. When Nute Gunray learns that there are Jedi coming to talk to him, he's scared. He knows what he's doing is wrong and is about to abandon the whole endeavor. unfortunately, he's much more scared of Sidious.
You know that's not true. They couldn't take his Mother, nor anyone else, because they were on an important mission, and they had no money. They couldn't just free slaves as they were outside of the Republic, and had no jurisdiction.
Yes, and....yes.
Yes...it was. Obi-Wan discovered the Clone Army while looking for the people trying to assassinate Padme. The whole subplot of the film is about preventing a civil war. They chase Dooku at the end hoping to stop him before the war begins.
The Jedi were ordered by the Senate to lead the Clone Army against the Separatist forces. The Jedi serve the Senate.
Say What?!
"General Kenobi, Years ago you served my Father in the Clone Wars"
"I fought as a Jedi Knight in the Clone Wars."
"You fought in the Clone Wars."
Mace Windu, Yoda and others question having to fight in a war. At the end, Yoda despairs over having to fight in a war. This is all in the movie.
No? Isn't this about your idealized conception of what the Jedi Order should be, based on the OT?
What material is required? I mean, this isn't like TFA, where there's REQUIRED READING, if you want to know what the hell is going on.
For me, the most powerful scene occurred just prior to that, when Anakin led his storm troopers and marched up the steps of the Jedi temple. There was a straight on shot and an overhead shot of them marching to their ultimate destiny and fate.
That and the very last scene of RotS of Uncle Owen and family looking out into the sunset were the two best scenes of the PT. These scenes happened so late in the PT, but by that time I had already lost hope in the PT. What came before that wasn't worthy.
Also, visually, the PT was so different than the OT. The OT had a three dimensional quality to it, while the PT looked two dimensional. I liked the look of models and real sets rather than the CGI of the PT. Plus, the vast majority of scenes in the PT looked too busy. Too many things were happening in the background. It looked cluttered.
Agree to disagree. I followed TFA far better than I did TPM.
Fair point.
I "know" this isn't true?
Fascinating.
Ok.
In the films, until you read the books, and then it gets confusing.
*clears throat* Master Windu, if you please:
You're telling me that viewing the Jedi through the lens of the OT, the dysfunctional Order we see in the PT is what you envisioned?
If so, then I will respectfully agree to disagree.
They're not disfunctional. They're just not prepared for a galactic scale war. They've not had such a war in a millennium. They handle diplomatic disputes, trade disputes, piracy, smugglers and so forth. They don't have a "Starfleet"(I almost dropped the M-bomb)
I personally think it's sort of brilliant how expectations of the Clone Wars were subverted. Many thought the Jedi fought against some cliche sci-fi evil clone army. As it turns out, the clones are the good guys, but not really. They betray the Jedi, kill them, and go on to form the Stormtrooper Corps. It's a clever and original(AFAIK) way to tell the story of how all this happened in a generation or less.
It's like how every Roman Emperor seized power. Create a conflict, raise an army, build loyalty, wipe out the old regime, put your loyal Army and loyal politicians everywhere
I personally think it's sort of brilliant how expectations of the Clone Wars were subverted. Many thought the Jedi fought against some cliche sci-fi evil clone army. As it turns out, the clones are the good guys, but not really. They betray the Jedi, kill them, and go on to form the Stormtrooper Corps. It's a clever and original(AFAIK) way to tell the story of how all this happened in a generation or less.
It's like how every Roman Emperor seized power. Create a conflict, raise an army, build loyalty, wipe out the old regime, put your loyal Army and loyal politicians everywhere
Most people's concept of the Jedi before The Phantom Menace wasn't based on the Original Trilogy, it was based on the Expanded Universe.
I was one of the few who wasn't, then, I guess.
The Clones being on the Republic side was a creative subversion, I will certainly agree with that idea. I think Palpatine's schemes wee well put out, and orchestrated in terms of his long term planning, manipulations and designs.
And, yes, I agree-the Jedi were not prepared for a war. Something that maybe someone, anyone, should have argued against, rather than blindly following the Senate.
There WERE people arguing against war... namely Padme Amidala, Bail Organa, and the other members of the Loyalist Committee.
You mean Luke's Academy?
Seriously, you need to check out this thread from over at Jedi Council forums. It's currently up to a hefty 117 pages (I haven't read it all yet) but there's some really interesting stuff here, tons of production images, that have blown away my perception of these movies. Just the first page alone of the thread is an eye opener.
http://boards.theforce.net/threads/...e-prequels-sets-pictures-models-etc.50017310/
Most of the things that people complain were 'all CGI' were actually practical effects, a massive chunk of the backgrounds were miniatures and matte paintings, and damn good ones at that. The amount of what most people would call 'old school' craft that has gone into these movies is immense. The criticism that the prequel trilogy is all computer generated is, quite frankly, complete bollocks. I think because it's a well known fact that Lucas shot ATOC & ROTS digitally, they naturally made the assumption that the whole shebang was created in a digital sandbox. I know I did.
I've mentioned this earlier up thread but the OT went to great pains to have the 'used' look to everything, which a lot of people seemed to appreciate. The PT however was striving for a shiny new look to everything as it was supposed to be depicting the final years of a grand republic at a time of peace. I see it like the 'roaring 20's' of our world before we descended into war and chaos, even down to the art deco style architecture of Coruscant. Look at the OT as being 'set in the 1940's' and you'll see the aesthetic that Lucas was going for with the PT, and rightly so in my opinion.
I'll accept that people don't like the acting, stories, dialogue etc but after reading this thread I'll call BS on people who slate them for being all CGI, as they are misinformed at best.
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Why isn't "all of the above" an option?
I meant among the Jedi. Also, it is unfortunate that the Loyalist Committee subplot was cut from ROTS.
I never really had a problem with Hayden Christensen as Anakin - aside from that hammy scene on Mustafar in "Revenge of the Sith". Then again, I wasn't that impressed by Ewan McGregor and Ian McDiarmid during that last half hour of the movie, as well.
As for Adam Driver . . . if he couldn't do anything with Ben Solo (perhaps no one could, as far as I'm concerned), then I don't really see the need for him as Anakin Skywalker. I didn't miss him.
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I think it has more to do with all the stuff about the Old Republic from the old Expanded Universe.
Kor
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