Why Do People Hate the Star Wars Prequel Trilogy?

[LJones41]

In a narrative, even if the hero is flawed, which is becoming more and more common in contemporary storytelling, there are positive features that can be exemplified or considered to be a role model. So, what is it about the Jedi that make them so?

Why was it necessary for the Jedi characters to remain "role models", especially in a story in which their own flaws played a major role in the fall of the Jedi Order? Why should any writer rigidly follow this rule in regard to characterization? Why would any writer constantly put himself or herself in such a box?

 

[Prax]

We could say the same about the new trilogy. Since everything has been reset in only one generation. The Republic is ALREADY corrupt and complacent. The Jedi Order has been destroyed AGAIN by a Jedi prodigy who was manipulated by an evil dark Lord. The dark Jedi is now the Dark Lord's servant and leads his army of stormtroopers.

I mean what was the point of the six films if there's really no period of peace and rebuilding.

 

[Ithekro]

The series of films is called "Star WARS". It is not like they would set one in a time of peace to let us see the peace alone. No it shows us the wars, the downfall of civilizations, be it the Republic or the Empire.

 

[Kor]

The Jedi of the PT are like the protagonists of many ancient sagas.

They are basically the protagonists just because they are the protagonists, even though, objectively, they might not be great people and they may even be severely lacking when it comes to today's ideals of noble behavior and moral conduct. And I think that fits just fine with SW being thematically influenced by ancient myth and legend.

Kor

 

[fireproof78]

^ I think I've figured out what lies at the heart of your comments about the Jedi: a misunderstanding about what (or rather, WHO) the "return" part of Return of the Jedi is a reference to. It's not a reference to the Jedi returning as a faction, but rather to Anakin Skywalker's "return" at the conclusion of the film when he kills the Emperor.

But, why should that be celebrated? Because a semi-ok, kind of a jerk, decided to do one more right thing before he died?

Why was it necessary for the Jedi characters to remain "role models", especially in a story in which their own flaws played a major role in the fall of the Jedi Order? Why should any writer rigidly follow this rule in regard to characterization? Why would any writer constantly put himself or herself in such a box?

Then why should we want Luke to become a Jedi?

 

[DigificWriter]

But, why should that be celebrated?

Because his actions were the catalyst for more than 2 decades of restored peace in the galaxy.

 

[fireproof78]

Because his actions were the catalyst for more than 2 decades of restored peace in the galaxy.

What that not have happened without him?

 

[DigificWriter]

Would that not have happened without him?

Not without continued war and millions upon millions of casualties more than had already been accrued up to that point.

 

[fireproof78]

Not without continued war and millions upon millions of casualties more than had already been accrued up to that point.

And so, what was Luke's role?

Also, the way that's described makes Anakin sound like a thing, and not a person. He is the McGuffin, like Excalibur, that will be the magic weapon to unmake the Sith.

 

[DigificWriter]

And so, what was Luke's role?

He was the catalyst for Anakin's return to the Light Side.... although that's not what Obi-Wan and Yoda were "grooming" him for. Obi-Wan and Yoda believed Luke to be the fulfilment of the "Chosen One" prophecy that they had once believed referred to Anakin.

Also, the way that's described makes Anakin sound like a thing, and not a person. He is the McGuffin, like Excalibur, that will be the magic weapon to unmake the Sith.

Anakin was both of those things, and intentionally so.

 

[Ithekro]

What Luke did? Finally pickup up on the older Jedi teachings...those that might as well have died off with Qui-Gon Gin. The ones that Yoda talked about, but wasn't practicing. Luke stopped fighting in face of the Sith Lords. He denied Palpatine. This, more than anything every had, pissed off Palpatine. This boy defied him. This Last Jedi.

But Luke's act, and the witnessing of events by the crippled Darth Vader, brought back Anakin Skywalker. The Chosen One acted, perhaps like Qui-Gon always thought he should, against the Sith, not out of hatred, or fear, but out of love and attachment to one's family. Skywalkers defied and ended the Sith on that day. Not with Jedi skills, not with the Force, but by not giving in to the Sith at all.

The Jedi of the Republic fell into the Sith trap by fighting, even if defense of the Republic. Luke stopped fighting and just stood defiant, and later jus pleaded for help from his father, who was conflicted.

 

[fireproof78]

What Luke did? Finally pickup up on the older Jedi teachings...those that might as well have died off with Qui-Gon Gin. The ones that Yoda talked about, but wasn't practicing. Luke stopped fighting in face of the Sith Lords. He denied Palpatine. This, more than anything every had, pissed off Palpatine. This boy defied him. This Last Jedi.

But Luke's act, and the witnessing of events by the crippled Darth Vader, brought back Anakin Skywalker. The Chosen One acted, perhaps like Qui-Gon always thought he should, against the Sith, not out of hatred, or fear, but out of love and attachment to one's family. Skywalkers defied and ended the Sith on that day. Not with Jedi skills, not with the Force, but by not giving in to the Sith at all.

The Jedi of the Republic fell into the Sith trap by fighting, even if defense of the Republic. Luke stopped fighting and just stood defiant, and later jus pleaded for help from his father, who was conflicted.

Interesting perspective. So, Luke's willingness to not fight the Sith, to surrender to the Force, allowed for the Sith's defeat.

Interesting perspective. I appreciate you writing that out. It then begs the question, what is the Jedi way?

 

[Prax]

But, why should that be celebrated? Because a semi-ok, kind of a jerk, decided to do one more right thing before he died?

Then why should we want Luke to become a Jedi?

Luke wants to become a Jedi like his Father. He craves adventure.

You speak as if the Jedi are bad. They're still superheroes with magical powers. They protect the innocent. They defend the freedom of the Republic's citizens.

Who wasn't rooting for Qui-Gonn and Obi-Wan? They didn't have magnetic enough personalities for you to want Luke to become a Jedi?

We want Luke to become a Jedi because Luke wants to become a Jedi.

 

[fireproof78]

Luke wants to become a Jedi like his Father. He craves adventure.

You speak as if the Jedi are bad. They're still superheroes with magical powers. They protect the innocent. They defend the freedom of the Republic's citizens.

Who wasn't rooting for Qui-Gonn and Obi-Wan? They didn't have magnetic enough personalities for you to want Luke to become a Jedi?

We want Luke to become a Jedi because Luke wants to become a Jedi.

But, we don't see the Jedi doing good things in the PT. That's my point. I agree that in the OT they are presented as superheroes and magical powers. I wanted to be one when I was younger, I wanted to be Luke.

But, in the PT, we are not presented with the Jedi as being these heroes. They are flawed, self-righteous, arrogant and lead to their own downfall and the downfall of the Republic.

So, where's the good?

 

[Prax]

Let's see, they help the Naboo,
save Jar Jar,
Take Anikan out of a bad situation, Rescue the Queen, then personally help her drive out her oppressors.
Then they fend off an evil dude with magic powers, dressed in black, that looks like Satan.

In Episode II, they protect Padme from Assassins, help track down the Assassins and then conduct an investigation to find out who's behind it all, which ties in with trying to prevent a war.

In Episode III, we're near the End. They defend Coruscant from an army of evil robots, rescue the Supreme Chancellor or the Republic, defeat the Evil Warlord Count Dooku, defeat the evil warlord General Grievous.

They believed they're fighting the good fight until it was too late. They were fighting the wrong fight, but they didn't really have a choice, did they?

We're you expecting them to go on missionary trips to feed the poor? Or build Swa huts for the Homeless?

What does Luke do that is "good?"
After a short life as a farmer, he switches careers to fight space Nazis. In his spare time, he studies to be a magical space wizard. He's keen to save his friends.(oops, I forgot, prequel Jedi save friends)

And lastly, he finds out his dad is one of the head space Nazis, and also a part time space wizard(of the evil variety) and Luke thinks to himself "Daggonit, that's my Pops. He won't kill me. He's not that evil. I'mma try an talk to him"

Edit: Add Obi-Wan cuts off thugs arm to save farm boy whom he just recruited to fight space Nazis

 

[fireproof78]

Let's see, they help the Naboo,

That was their job, and they did it in the most random way possible.

save Jar Jar,

Ok.

Take Anikan out of a bad situation,

No, they took Anakin out of a bad situation because Qui-Gon decided he was important enough to save. The rest of the slaves? Should have had higher midi-clorian counts.

Rescue the Queen, then personally help her drive out her oppressors.

Their job, and the Queen is the primary moving force in that direction, and defeats the Army.

Then they fend off an evil dude with magic powers, dressed in black, that looks like Satan.

Two questions: Is Satan a thing in this galaxy? And isn't that racist?

In Episode II, they protect Padme from Assassins, help track down the Assassins and then conduct an investigation to find out who's behind it all, which ties in with trying to prevent a war.

Their primary goal was not to prevent the war. It was to investigate the Clone Army and then decide that a slave army was the appropriate solution to their problem, without question.

They believed they're fighting the good fight until it was too late. They were fighting the wrong fight, but they didn't really have a choice, did they?

But, their not supposed to be soldiers!!! That's the point. At no point do the Jedi question their role.
That's a structural and narrative problem I have with the PT. No one is calling out the possible problems with these plans.

We're you expecting them to go on missionary trips to feed the poor? Or build Swa huts for the Homeless?

Yes.

What does Luke do that is "good?"
After a short life as a farmer, he switches careers to fight space Nazis. In his spare time, he studies to be a magical space wizard. He's keen to save his friends.(oops, I forgot, prequel Jedi save friends)

And lastly, he finds out his dad is one of the head space Nazis, and also a part time space wizard(of the evil variety) and Luke thinks to himself "Daggonit, that's my Pops. He won't kill me. He's not that evil. I'mma try an talk to him"

Edit: Add Obi-Wan cuts off thugs arm to save farm boy whom he just recruited to fight space Nazis

This isn't about the OT or Luke. It's about the PT.

 

[DigificWriter]

Interesting perspective.

It's not an "interesting perspective"; it's what Star Wars' narrative is as presented through the first 6 films in the Saga and supplemented by The Clone Wars and additional Canonical materials.

 

[fireproof78]

It's not an "interesting perspective"; it's what Star Wars' narrative is as presented through the first 6 films in the Saga and supplemented by The Clone Wars and additional Canonical materials.

It's what the narrative evolved in to-it isn't what it was initially.

 

[DigificWriter]

It's what the narrative evolved in to-it isn't what it was initially.

So? It doesn't matter what the Saga's narrative may or may not have initially been intended to be. All that matters is what its narrative ended up being, which is exactly what was outlined above.

 

[fireproof78]

So? It doesn't matter what the Saga's narrative may or may not have initially been intended to be. All that matters is what its narrative ended up being, which is exactly what was outlined above.

No, it was retconned in to that. Nor does it change the fact that the Jedi are presented as arrogant fools who deserved what they get and are not redeemable.