Why do people consider the finale so bad?

[Ceridwen]

Well, I think the most common points of criticism voiced by viewers are these:

• It’s doesn’t feel like a proper episode of Star Trek: Enterprise, but more like a weird attempt at recreating the feel of The Next Generation. There’s way too much focus on Riker and Troi, two characters from a different show, and it’s entirely at the expense of spending more time with the main cast.

I think even looking at it as a Riker and Troi episode, removing my feelings as an Enterprise fan at the time, is frustrating. It's so ham-fisted shoving a "Riker plays laser tag" subplot into "The Pegasus" like that. Riker and Troi look so different too.

If they really wanted to keep the Riker/Troi of it all, setting it at a point just before Nemesis where he's debating whether or not to take command of the Titan would have helped with how jarring the framing device is, I think. But I guess that doesn't really serve the "We are celebrating Berman's run on this thing" as directly; for all they called it a "love letter to the fans", it was really a love letter to him at the end of the day.

they still do reruns of Enterprise?

In my area its on every weekday at midnight on the digital channel H&I (Heroes & Icons), at the end of a five hour block of Star Trek programming where they show an episode from each of the pre-streaming, live-action shows.

 

[korblborp]

In my area its on every weekday at midnight on the digital channel H&I (Heroes & Icons), at the end of a five hour block of Star Trek programming where they show an episode from each of the pre-streaming, live-action shows.

that seems like a nice chunk of programming to show people to get people interested in trek

 

[MurphyCooper]

I don't like it because it had that silly callback to TNG.

 

[TomEvans]

So, I have to ask. (Yes, I'm new here and, although I don't see it, I apologize if this is an ongoing on previotheously discussed topic!) Why do people consider the ending sooooo bad? I didn't think it was the greatest thing ever, but I didn't mind it!

My only problem, was that it wasnt made clear canon that the ENTIRE SERIES was Rikers own personalized version of the Hologram, that he ran in the Holodeck while awaiting trial for the Pegasus incident, in order to prepare his defense by studying Archers first missions and hirs crew.

This would have smoothed out any problems, by leaving question as to whether the events of the series were actual canon history, or it was Rikers modifications for his own purposes and eccentricity.
For example, we know that Worf wouldnt discuss why some Klingons looked different during the TOS era, so Riker could have made up his own hypothesis about it, And likewise he made Data into a successor of Khan Singhs genetic experiments, etc... and even named Archers first ship Enterprise.

(And of course, the inappropriate kinky stuff.... including a burlesque female Vulcan officer...would be pure Riker, along with his possible dislike of Vulcans.

It also would make sense why they never showed the face of Chef, who was played by Richard Sarstedt, and who was also the body double stand in for John Frakes... since they looked alike except for the face, with Frakes only playing Chef in the finale. The implication here, is that was Riker for the whole series, and that was the final surprise ending.

So this seems to be left purposely ambiguous, like the ending of Total Recall.... i.e. it is fairly obvious to geeks like me that it was a simulation, but never officially confirmed.

 

[HotRod]

My only problem, was that it wasnt made clear canon that the ENTIRE SERIES was Rikers own personalized version of the Hologram, that he ran in the Holodeck while awaiting trial for the Pegasus incident, in order to prepare his defense by studying Archers first missions and hirs crew.

This would have smoothed out any problems, by leaving question as to whether the events of the series were actual canon history, or it was Rikers modifications for his own purposes and eccentricity.
For example, we know that Worf wouldnt discuss why some Klingons looked different during the TOS era, so Riker could have made up his own hypothesis about it, And likewise he made Data into a successor of Khan Singhs genetic experiments, etc... and even named Archers first ship Enterprise.

(And of course, the inappropriate kinky stuff.... including a burlesque female Vulcan officer...would be pure Riker, along with his possible dislike of Vulcans.

It also would make sense why they never showed the face of Chef, who was played by Richard Sarstedt, and who was also the body double stand in for John Frakes... since they looked alike except for the face, with Frakes only playing Chef in the finale. The implication here, is that was Riker for the whole series, and that was the final surprise ending.

So this seems to be left purposely ambiguous, like the ending of Total Recall.... i.e. it is fairly obvious to geeks like me that it was a simulation, but never officially confirmed.

Yeah, no.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

You can tell the difference between real life and holodeck simulations in Star Trek by the establishing shots (unless it's set to cinematic mode like in Lower Decks). If you see an exterior shot of the spaceship, it's really happening, if there's a suspicious absence of exterior shots, it's likely the holodeck or a dream.

According to that rule, Enterprise actually happened, just like we saw it.

 

[StarTrek1701]

You can tell the difference between real life and holodeck simulations in Star Trek by the establishing shots (unless it's set to cinematic mode like in Lower Decks). If you see an exterior shot of the spaceship, it's really happening, if there's a suspicious absence of exterior shots, it's likely the holodeck or a dream.

According to that rule, Enterprise actually happened, just like we saw it.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/The_Good_That_Men_Do

I may be misremembering but apparently this novel is canon and freely contradicts the events from TATV.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I may be misremembering but apparently this novel is canon and freely contradicts the events from TATV.

I don't think any of the novels are considered canon, but I didn't mean to claim that the events of the finale must have happened like we saw them. The NX-01 scenes in TATV have no establishing shots and are 100% Riker's simulation, so they could be wildly different to the actual events, like in Living Witness. Or they could be accurate.

The rest of the series happened like we saw it. Except for when it was all just Hoshi's dream, etc.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I don't think any of the novels are considered canon, but I didn't mean to claim that the events of the finale must have happened like we saw them. The NX-01 scenes in TATV have no establishing shots and are 100% Riker's simulation, so they could be wildly different to the actual events, like in Living Witness. Or they could be accurate.

The rest of the series happened like we saw it. Except for when it was all just Hoshi's dream, etc.

Anyone who claims that their supporting novel is %100 canon for a TV series that they do not own %100, is a vain prima donna with a burgeoning god complex.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

@Guy Gardener... you might try looking at the situation from their point of view. Everyone has a right to their own opinion. Especially about a worthless, insulting episode that ruined the finale of a show they liked. (My own opinion, of course.)

 

[jamesteakirk]

So, I have to ask. (Yes, I'm new here and, although I don't see it, I apologize if this is an ongoing on previously discussed topic!) Why do people consider the ending sooooo bad? I didn't think it was the greatest thing ever, but I didn't mind it!

The finale of what? The Olympics?

 

[jamesteakirk]

The finale of what? The Olympics?

Oops! Sorry! I didn’t see the small print referencing “Enterprise”.

 

[Uncle Sock]

I’m not sure if anyone’s said this already, but I really disliked the finale because the actual crew didn’t even show up. They were all holograms, and to this day we can’t be sure the portrayals were even accurate since it was just a holodeck program. Sure, it was probably based on historical events. But still—it was a holodeck program.

TATV would have worked fine as a finale without the Trois playing it out on the holodeck. And furthermore, from a production standpoint, it really feels like the producers were caught off guard by the cancellation and had to scramble to throw together something “worthy” of being the ending. It’s a shame, because it comes across like they didn’t have enough "faith of the heart" in their own show and had to lean on TNG for the send-off. With more lead time and a longer runtime, TATV could have been a genuinely strong finale.

But the way it actually aired? It felt like a slap in the face to everyone who truly loved Enterprise—myself included.

(My personal cringe moment was Riker posing as Chef and kissing T’Pol and talking about Trip’s death. Why was that detail even in the historical database? The fact that they had some kind of relationship, I mean. Just… why. Granted, on the other hand, Beverly's personnel file included that she was some kind of tap dancing superstar... but seriously... why is all that stuff in that database?)

 

[Guy Gardener]

@Guy Gardener... you might try looking at the situation from their point of view. Everyone has a right to their own opinion. Especially about a worthless, insulting episode that ruined the finale of a show they liked. (My own opinion, of course.)

I was actually thinking of Jeri Taylor's Voyager Novels.

Clearly she was the authority, but that can't still be true.

 

[WarpCore]

My only problem, was that it wasnt made clear canon that the ENTIRE SERIES was Rikers own personalized version of the Hologram, that he ran in the Holodeck while awaiting trial for the Pegasus incident, in order to prepare his defense by studying Archers first missions and hirs crew.

This would have smoothed out any problems, by leaving question as to whether the events of the series were actual canon history, or it was Rikers modifications for his own purposes and eccentricity.
For example, we know that Worf wouldnt discuss why some Klingons looked different during the TOS era, so Riker could have made up his own hypothesis about it, And likewise he made Data into a successor of Khan Singhs genetic experiments, etc... and even named Archers first ship Enterprise.

(And of course, the inappropriate kinky stuff.... including a burlesque female Vulcan officer...would be pure Riker, along with his possible dislike of Vulcans.

It also would make sense why they never showed the face of Chef, who was played by Richard Sarstedt, and who was also the body double stand in for John Frakes... since they looked alike except for the face, with Frakes only playing Chef in the finale. The implication here, is that was Riker for the whole series, and that was the final surprise ending.

So this seems to be left purposely ambiguous, like the ending of Total Recall.... i.e. it is fairly obvious to geeks like me that it was a simulation, but never officially confirmed.

Timeline for "while awaiting trial" doesn't or shouldn't line up.

TATV perspective:
RIKER: First Officer's Personal Log, Stardate 47457.1. With the
unexpected arrival of Admiral Pressman, my old CO, I find myself in
an awkward position. Counsellor Troi has suggested I might get a few
insights by calling up an historic holo-programme.

The Pegasus perspective:
PICARD: Captain's log, stardate 47457.1. We have been trapped inside the
asteroid for over eight hours. Mister Data and Commander La Forge
inform me that they are nearly ready to engage the cloak.

So canon is these events run simultaneously. Meaning, while the NCC-1701-D is looking for an asteroid, Riker is on the holodeck trying to decide who to betray if it comes to a head. An admiral who's broken treaties but can unravel Riker's past while destroying his future or the lower ranking captain who's doing the morally correct thing and may or may not support him. I've always seen it as the end of TATV is when Riker comes to the conclusion in The Pegasus to say,

RIKER: It means that I can't put this off any longer. Right up until
this moment I had the luxury of time, but now I've got to make a
choice. And, Admiral, I'm afraid my choice is this. I can't let you
start these experiments again. It was wrong twelve years ago, and it
is wrong today.

But he also says this,
RIKER: I've had twelve years to think about it, and if I had it to
do over again I would have grabbed the phaser and pointed it at you
instead of them.
which means the holodeck experience, thus possibly ENT but definitely TATV, was all a waste of time. That's why the episode was a spit in the face for people that watched 4 years, not a Valentines. Riker had already concluded sometime over the previous 12 years that he'd done the wrong thing, but never rang an alarm bell because doing so would have incriminated him as well. And probably Thomas.


The TNG episodes go back in time for the first two following The Pegasus (Homeward and Sub Rosa both occur on Stardate: 47423.9, 12 days before 47457.1, and yes, that's contradictory sloppiness) then jump ahead 40 days or 6-7 weeks for Lower Decks (Stardate: 47566.7). So any trial/court martial that we never saw may have happened during that and is never spoken of again.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I assumed that Riker was phasering people in his way to get to the escape pods and clear the Pegasus disaster.

If the phaser was set to kill, he definitely killed people.

If the phaser was set to stun, he still killed people who were snoozing when they should have been escaping, and therefore dying until they were dead.

Meanwhile if Riker phasered all the other escape pods to stop the mutineers from either hunting Riker and Pressman down to kill them, or testify against the two of them at trial way down the road, that's also murder and not self defense.

Pressman conducting illegal experiments is one thing, but how many more Starfleet officers then zero did Will Riker cut in half with a phaser?

 

[TomEvans]

Timeline for "while awaiting trial" doesn't or shouldn't line up.

TATV perspective:
RIKER: First Officer's Personal Log, Stardate 47457.1. With the
unexpected arrival of Admiral Pressman, my old CO, I find myself in
an awkward position. Counsellor Troi has suggested I might get a few
insights by calling up an historic holo-programme.

The Pegasus perspective:
PICARD: Captain's log, stardate 47457.1. We have been trapped inside the
asteroid for over eight hours. Mister Data and Commander La Forge
inform me that they are nearly ready to engage the cloak.

So canon is these events run simultaneously. Meaning, while the NCC-1701-D is looking for an asteroid, Riker is on the holodeck trying to decide who to betray if it comes to a head. An admiral who's broken treaties but can unravel Riker's past while destroying his future or the lower ranking captain who's doing the morally correct thing and may or may not support him. I've always seen it as the end of TATV is when Riker comes to the conclusion in The Pegasus to say,

RIKER: It means that I can't put this off any longer. Right up until
this moment I had the luxury of time, but now I've got to make a
choice. And, Admiral, I'm afraid my choice is this. I can't let you
start these experiments again. It was wrong twelve years ago, and it
is wrong today.

But he also says this,
RIKER: I've had twelve years to think about it, and if I had it to
do over again I would have grabbed the phaser and pointed it at you
instead of them.
which means the holodeck experience, thus possibly ENT but definitely TATV, was all a waste of time. That's why the episode was a spit in the face for people that watched 4 years, not a Valentines. Riker had already concluded sometime over the previous 12 years that he'd done the wrong thing, but never rang an alarm bell because doing so would have incriminated him as well. And probably Thomas.


The TNG episodes go back in time for the first two following The Pegasus (Homeward and Sub Rosa both occur on Stardate: 47423.9, 12 days before 47457.1, and yes, that's contradictory sloppiness) then jump ahead 40 days or 6-7 weeks for Lower Decks (Stardate: 47566.7). So any trial/court martial that we never saw may have happened during that and is never spoken of again.

I was under the impression that Riker was working on his defense for his upcoming Court Martial.

(The Pegasus episode was fairly strange, since Picard used the cloaking device rather than surrender to the Romulans, and nobody mutinied LOL

 

[fireproof78]

Timeline for "while awaiting trial" doesn't or shouldn't line up.

TATV perspective:
RIKER: First Officer's Personal Log, Stardate 47457.1. With the
unexpected arrival of Admiral Pressman, my old CO, I find myself in
an awkward position. Counsellor Troi has suggested I might get a few
insights by calling up an historic holo-programme.

The Pegasus perspective:
PICARD: Captain's log, stardate 47457.1. We have been trapped inside the
asteroid for over eight hours. Mister Data and Commander La Forge
inform me that they are nearly ready to engage the cloak.

So canon is these events run simultaneously. Meaning, while the NCC-1701-D is looking for an asteroid, Riker is on the holodeck trying to decide who to betray if it comes to a head. An admiral who's broken treaties but can unravel Riker's past while destroying his future or the lower ranking captain who's doing the morally correct thing and may or may not support him. I've always seen it as the end of TATV is when Riker comes to the conclusion in The Pegasus to say,

RIKER: It means that I can't put this off any longer. Right up until
this moment I had the luxury of time, but now I've got to make a
choice. And, Admiral, I'm afraid my choice is this. I can't let you
start these experiments again. It was wrong twelve years ago, and it
is wrong today.

But he also says this,
RIKER: I've had twelve years to think about it, and if I had it to
do over again I would have grabbed the phaser and pointed it at you
instead of them.
which means the holodeck experience, thus possibly ENT but definitely TATV, was all a waste of time. That's why the episode was a spit in the face for people that watched 4 years, not a Valentines. Riker had already concluded sometime over the previous 12 years that he'd done the wrong thing, but never rang an alarm bell because doing so would have incriminated him as well. And probably Thomas.


The TNG episodes go back in time for the first two following The Pegasus (Homeward and Sub Rosa both occur on Stardate: 47423.9, 12 days before 47457.1, and yes, that's contradictory sloppiness) then jump ahead 40 days or 6-7 weeks for Lower Decks (Stardate: 47566.7). So any trial/court martial that we never saw may have happened during that and is never spoken of again.

While I cannot agree to "spit in the face" I agree that the Pegasus episode stands apart best.