Why didn't they make Troi the communications offcier?

[Mr_Homn]

I always wish Betazoids were explored more in TNG. I think it was a missed opportunity. They didn't really do much with them besides make them have kinky nudist weddings. It didn't help that the only other betazoid we regularly saw was Crazy old Lwaxana. Then we see Devonani Ral and he's a total doucher. Oh, and the unstable effeminate betazoid from Tin Man. He was kind of annoying and most of the characters disliked him. I don't remember any others with any significant parts.

 

[Doug Otte]

I always wish Betazoids were explored more in TNG. I think it was a missed opportunity. They didn't really do much with them besides make them have kinky nudist weddings. It didn't help that the only other betazoid we regularly saw was Crazy old Lwaxana. Then we see Devonani Ral and he's a total doucher. Oh, and the unstable effeminate betazoid from Tin Man. He was kind of annoying and most of the characters disliked him. I don't remember any others with any significant parts.

There was also Satie's flunky in The Drumhead, and I felt he stole Troi's part. Notice how she only appeared in the initial scene where she questioned the Klingon scientist w/ Riker?

Doug

 

[MikeH92467]

...Or then counselors come in at a certain minimum crew size, which Janeway didn't meet. We mostly observed the bridges of large fellow starships when those ships were engaged in combat or other such trouble (Yamato, Melbourne, Phoenix, Odyssey etc.); the random blueshirt in the deep background or just outside the frame might have been each respective skipper's "bridge counselor", with little to say in the situation.

It would have been interesting to feature Maxwell's bridge counselor in "The Wounded" somehow, tho...

Timo Saloniemi

I got the feeling that Maxwell was running more of a military style ship than Picard. I would think that the ship's doctor in that case would handle that role (or maybe the ship's barkeep?) for a more military crew. I would think a counselor would be much more called for in a mixed crew where you have civilians/family members trying to cope with the outer space lifestyle and the weekly existential threat. Children who survived the Borg encounter in BOBW could have been pretty severely scarred I would think...

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

But she did have a Betazoid on the bridge.

But stationed where?

Right at the helm (Lt. Stadi). Not hard for her to turn and tell Janeway what she could "feel". And it wouldn't be tough to see her as an adviser if she had survived the trip to the Delta Quadrant.

Just because she's Betazoid doesn't mean she knows about psychology. Yes she can sense peoples thoughts and feelings, but without training to weed out what is chatter (think of all the random crap that goes through your mind at any given time) and what is an actual issue that needs to be addressed and treated, her skills would be a bit iffy. Far better for sensing Janeway's decisions and acting quickly upon them during combat.

Thought I do think it would've been better if Stadi had been in VOY. How might the series have progressed is it had been Kim who'd been killed in transit instead?

 

[Gotham Central]

I think it just makes more sense if Troi was on the bridge because of her empathic abilities for viewscreen encounters, and NOT because she was ship's counselor.

Picard did say at one point that most Captains didn't have the benefit of a Betazed counselor. And it interesting that we don't see other ship and station command staffs with a counselor in attendance.

There no evidence that Janeway possessed a counselor on the bridge prior to being pulled into the delta quad, and when she rebuilt the Voyager's command team, Janeway did not lament that a counselor was not included in that group.

Sisko had no counselor on his command staff for six seasons. Yes, there was a counselor on the station, but not at his side assisting in the making of decisions.

So having a counselor present on the bridge might have been exclusively a "Picard thing," and not a general Starfleet policy.

Actually, Janeway at one point does lament not having a counselor on board. Keep in mind that unlike most of the other technical positions on Voyager, a Counselor would be hard to replace if you don't have someone with the proper qualifications available. In some ways, Neelix fills this role as the defacto morale officer and eventually ambassador. The only person with the necessary qualifications that could have legitimately done the job would have been the Doctor...and we can all agree that he would have made a terrible counselor.

Sisko's situation was a little different since technically the objectives of an outpost would be different than that of a starship venturing into the unknown. What Sisko was less in need of someone to advise him or station morale and keeping him away from the prime directive...after all he was charged with bringing Bajor into the Federation so the PD was no longer a valid concern. What Sisko needed was an advisor/specialist with knowledge of the local culture and politics to help him avoid some of the minefields of bajoran society (as well as someone familiar with the Cardassians). Sisko go just that in the form of Major/Colonel Kira. In fact he says as much in the pilot when he tells her that he requested a Bajoran national to serve as his second in command for just that reason.

 

[Christopher]

There was a counselor on DS9's staff, Counselor Telnorri. He was mentioned in "Hard Time," when O'Brien was required to attend regular counseling sessions after his ordeal in the Argrathi virtual prison. He just wasn't a part of the command crew the way Deanna was.

 

[R. Star]

But stationed where?

Right at the helm (Lt. Stadi). Not hard for her to turn and tell Janeway what she could "feel". And it wouldn't be tough to see her as an adviser if she had survived the trip to the Delta Quadrant.

Just because she's Betazoid doesn't mean she knows about psychology. Yes she can sense peoples thoughts and feelings, but without training to weed out what is chatter (think of all the random crap that goes through your mind at any given time) and what is an actual issue that needs to be addressed and treated, her skills would be a bit iffy. Far better for sensing Janeway's decisions and acting quickly upon them during combat.

Thought I do think it would've been better if Stadi had been in VOY. How might the series have progressed is it had been Kim who'd been killed in transit instead?

If Troi's supposed psychological training is the backbone of her counselling abilities and not her empathy, then why did she try to resign the moment she lost her powers?

As far as I can tell she never once demonstrated expertise in her chosen field of study without relying on her empathy. When she was counseling Data on his emotions he encouraged him to explore the negative feelings he experienced, anger, hate and pleasure at inflicting pain. That sure turned out good. Lest we forget she lasted about 1 minute in counseling Zimmerman and the EMH before she lost her temper and called them both jerks.

But to your question Stadi would be interesting to have around, but really would throw Paris onto the backburner. Then again Janeway already does random things like deciding a pilot would make a good medic because he took a biology class years ago, so he might just throw Paris at Ops.

 

[Christopher]

If Troi's supposed psychological training is the backbone of her counselling abilities and not her empathy, then why did she try to resign the moment she lost her powers?

Because she was distraught and wasn't thinking clearly. Because she'd always relied on her empathy as part of her work and assumed she couldn't do without it.

Fiction is full of stories of people who are temporarily or permanently disabled and believe they've been rendered useless as a result, only to be taught that they can find another way of doing their job because it was their talent rather than that one single sense or ability that let them achieve it. For instance, when MacGyver's Dana Elcar was losing his sight to glaucoma, they had his character Pete Thornton lose his vision too, and they did the obligatory episode where he decided to quit his job until he discovered he was still able to cope without his sight. "The Loss" followed the same storytelling formula, just with an alien sense.

As far as I can tell she never once demonstrated expertise in her chosen field of study without relying on her empathy.

That's like saying that Pete Thornton never once demonstrated skill at his job without relying on his vision. The problem is that you're thinking of empathy as a special power, when to a Betazoid it's just an everyday sense like hearing or smell. Just as with Pete's vision, Deanna always used her empathy because she never had reason not to use one of her basic senses.

 

[R. Star]

Valid points, on those two snippets, but I was addressing what and not why. I never said she shouldn't use it. The previous post I quoted said she was a trained pyschologist and that was why she had her job and not her empathy. I just pointed out that she relied on said empathy more than any training, which as the rest of my previous post pointed out was applied shakily at best.

 

[Christopher]

No, she relied on her empathy and her training together, just as a human therapist would rely on her hearing and her training together. Getting sensory information is just the first step; the important part is how to interpret that information.

As for your critique of her competence, I think you're doing just what you suggest I was doing to you -- taking a couple of "snippets" out of the whole and overemphasizing them.

 

[Gotham Central]

I don't get why people would want Troi to be Communications officer....

She would have made a better diplomatic officer. That was pretty much her role on the bridge. She helped Picard with all manner of negotiations and pretty much took it as her responsibility to prepare him for any any meetings with foreign powers. Given that the Enterprise was the flagship and thus everything it did reflected directly on the Federation, it would make sense for the ship to have Diplomatic officer on board to ensure that proper protocols were followed. It made sense for her to be formally given that role on Titan.

 

[R. Star]

I don't get why people would want Troi to be Communications officer....

She would have made a better diplomatic officer. That was pretty much her role on the bridge. She helped Picard with all manner of negotiations and pretty much took it as her responsibility to prepare him for any any meetings with foreign powers. Given that the Enterprise was the flagship and thus everything it did reflected directly on the Federation, it would make sense for the ship to have Diplomatic officer on board to ensure that proper protocols were followed. It made sense for her to be formally given that role on Titan.

Well, Picard kept her nearby so often as to read the mind of the other guy on the view screen. Actually makes you wonder how far her abilities go too if she can sense a single person on another ship that may be several kilometers away. Wonder if she ever gets overloaded when they enter orbit of a planet with a million people or something.

But her in a diplomatic role makes sense as you said. It would have been neat to see her have been the Federation negotiator in The Price, after the Ferengi poisoned the real negotiator. That would have been a nice dramatic conflict between her and Ral(was that his name? Anyways the other Betazoid), that would create more genuine friction in their romance.