At least it's doing better than 9 Lives. That's something. Right?
I'm surprised a movie about cats isn't doing better. Any one have projections for what kind of drop Suicide Squad is looking at this weekend?
Why didn't Beyond do better at the Box Office?
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I'm surprised a movie about cats isn't doing better. Any one have projections for what kind of drop Suicide Squad is looking at this weekend?
You know, between us I think we've made a shocking discovery :
I'm not sure, but it looks like different folks like different things !
That obviously makes one of us wrong. I do hope it's not me...
Some of you may be aware that Michael Piller who wrote Insurrection had an unpunished manuscript about writing the movie called Fade In: The Writing of Star Trek Insurrection. A few years after his death, Trekcore made the manuscript available to fans to read. Piller offered some interesting insight into what happens when box office goes bad:
The optimism didn’t last long. The following weekend, the week before
Christmas, the gross fell over sixty percent and never recovered.
Because Insurrection’s domestic grosses were significantly less than the last
movie, there will be much research and analysis to try to figure out why. Many
issues will be discussed including marketing strategies, release date, nature of the
competition, weather, demographic appeal of the franchise, the possibility of
over-saturation of Star Trek in various media... and most certainly a great deal of
the discussion will center on the creative and conceptual decisions that we made.
The optimism didn’t last long. The following weekend, the week before
Christmas, the gross fell over sixty percent and never recovered.
Because Insurrection’s domestic grosses were significantly less than the last
movie, there will be much research and analysis to try to figure out why. Many
issues will be discussed including marketing strategies, release date, nature of the
competition, weather, demographic appeal of the franchise, the possibility of
over-saturation of Star Trek in various media... and most certainly a great deal of
the discussion will center on the creative and conceptual decisions that we made.
Just like there were wars between fans of TNG and 'old school Trek', and DS9 wasn't 'real Trek' and so forth. When I joined the place was filled with vitriol about Voyager, Enterprise and the TNG films. Welcome to fandom.
I really doubt the hardcore fans have much impact, aside from creating such a toxic atmosphere that I wonder why anyone would want to be a fan of Trek after reading the bile spewed out on Trek's social media pages, article comment sections and the Trek subreddit - but that is again not confined to the new films. I certainly don't want to be associated with such people.
Beyond simply failed to capture the imagination of the general public, for various reasons - most of which are attributable to the film itself. Much as I liked it, I can readily understand why others don't, or simply aren't interested in it.
Interesting comment thread on reddit's movie section about why Beyond did badly at the box office. The general consensus from casual movie fans seems to be "Wait? There's a new Star Trek movie? I haven't heard of it." Good job, marketing.
https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/4wqmcd/box_office_week_suicide_squad_demolishes_the/d6933sx
https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/4wqmcd/box_office_week_suicide_squad_demolishes_the/d6933sx
I simply disagree with this. I've been following Star Trek movie marketing since STIV, and Beyond had the longest and most multi-level marketing of any Trek movie. Even with the JJ movies, marketing on tv only started 3 weeks before the movie, with major interviews and commercials only starting in earnest a week before.
Back during the STNG movies it was similar roughly 2 weeks of tv ads with the push coming in the last week. Beyond had tv ads for 2 months!! On top of that, they were prolific on major networks, while doing cardio at the gym 2 weeks before--with an array of tvs before me-- I saw 4 Beyond ads on 3 different channels within 30 minutes. No ads at all for other movies.
Back during the STNG movies it was similar roughly 2 weeks of tv ads with the push coming in the last week. Beyond had tv ads for 2 months!! On top of that, they were prolific on major networks, while doing cardio at the gym 2 weeks before--with an array of tvs before me-- I saw 4 Beyond ads on 3 different channels within 30 minutes. No ads at all for other movies.
i don't know how you would market a star trek movie anymore
mellenials don't really watch tv
the rihanna song didn't really help them get noticed on social media as much as they probably hoped.
mellenials don't really watch tv
the rihanna song didn't really help them get noticed on social media as much as they probably hoped.
If you're going to insult and dismiss an entire group of people for no reason, at least spell it right.
He said millennials don't really watch TV. How are you possibly interpreting that as insulting and dismissing an entire group of people?
Yeah, it's not insulting. It's just a fact.
This movie seems pretty popular wth kids aged 10 to 20 (kind of like the anti-trek) so I'm going to expect better mid week holds and a drop around 65-66% for the weekend. That's guessing it will behave close to Guardians of the Galaxy and the true Saturday and Sunday drops will be closer to 50% but because of the heavy preview number the overall weekend to weekend drop will be mid 60s.
On a related note the Monday drops for STB and Jason Bourne were harsh again (over 60%). If we don't see a Tuesday bump and some stabilization soon over the coming week then even reaching $160m is going to be next to impossible.
I think the answer is pretty simple:
Star Trek is just not a mainstream audiences property.
It HAS significantly influenced mainstream. In everything, from design language, to storytelling tropes. But the actual viewership of Trek is somewhat limited. It's basically a small subset of the science-fancing nerd subculture. Not the "superhero"-nerds, but the (rare) science fiction lovers. People who tolerate crappy effects, silly outfits and boring stories, if they find the ideas and characters laying behind complex and interesting.
It has nothing to offer for mainstream audiences. There is rareyl action, the heroes are all nerdy/talky normal people. No superheroes, cops, or everymans-in-the-wrong-situation, just highly competent people that got their job through hard work. There is not much sex appeal or relationship drama. There's usually not much destruction porn, and if so, it's usually only the Enterprise. Star Wars has clear defined bad guys and heroes to root for, Star Trek always tries to pacify violent situations. Which is admirable, but also much more boring to watch. It's simply more appealing to see the bad guy getting obliterated, then forgiving him for his crimes and make peace with him. Star Trek offers too much real-world dilemma, when you just want escapism.
Many people checked out Star Trek 2009, because it was the first revival of a pop-cultural icon. Many stayed for Into Darkness. But even already for that, mainstream audiences already somewhat left. Basically, Star Trek is not made for easy entertainment. When I want to shut off from work, grab a beer, get some popcorn and want to watch an entertaining movie, I wouldn't choose Star Trek for that.
Don't get me wrong: Star Trek is not doomed. It has a very loyal and big core audience. One that is willing to spent a lot of money on memorabilias. TNG,TOS and the JJmovies both managed to gain a wider audience, that doesn't necessarily are hard-core Trekkies, but were entertained on the ride.
The audience is big enough and the perfect target for a television series. Like Game of Thrones, television series have a much smaller number of actual viewers,, despite their pop-cultural influence. It's also big enough to sustain a series of movies. It's just not big enough to guarantee blockbuster success, and the general Trek formula (the very thing that created the fans in the first place) is very bad in luring mainstream audiences in, and streamlining Trek to mainstream audiences alienates the hardcore fans that keep the franchise alive in the first place.
I'm not a producer, so I don't know what to do next. But I wouldn't worry for Discovery if it weren't meant to launch a network. For mainstream audiences. If STD manages to change to Neflix soon and will be allowed to be it's own thing, we will have a bright future. As for movies: Beyond doesn't seem ta rake in even 300 mio dollars. That's a bad sign, I wouldn't hold my breath for another big-budget Trek soon.
Star Trek is just not a mainstream audiences property.
It HAS significantly influenced mainstream. In everything, from design language, to storytelling tropes. But the actual viewership of Trek is somewhat limited. It's basically a small subset of the science-fancing nerd subculture. Not the "superhero"-nerds, but the (rare) science fiction lovers. People who tolerate crappy effects, silly outfits and boring stories, if they find the ideas and characters laying behind complex and interesting.
It has nothing to offer for mainstream audiences. There is rareyl action, the heroes are all nerdy/talky normal people. No superheroes, cops, or everymans-in-the-wrong-situation, just highly competent people that got their job through hard work. There is not much sex appeal or relationship drama. There's usually not much destruction porn, and if so, it's usually only the Enterprise. Star Wars has clear defined bad guys and heroes to root for, Star Trek always tries to pacify violent situations. Which is admirable, but also much more boring to watch. It's simply more appealing to see the bad guy getting obliterated, then forgiving him for his crimes and make peace with him. Star Trek offers too much real-world dilemma, when you just want escapism.
Many people checked out Star Trek 2009, because it was the first revival of a pop-cultural icon. Many stayed for Into Darkness. But even already for that, mainstream audiences already somewhat left. Basically, Star Trek is not made for easy entertainment. When I want to shut off from work, grab a beer, get some popcorn and want to watch an entertaining movie, I wouldn't choose Star Trek for that.
Don't get me wrong: Star Trek is not doomed. It has a very loyal and big core audience. One that is willing to spent a lot of money on memorabilias. TNG,TOS and the JJmovies both managed to gain a wider audience, that doesn't necessarily are hard-core Trekkies, but were entertained on the ride.
The audience is big enough and the perfect target for a television series. Like Game of Thrones, television series have a much smaller number of actual viewers,, despite their pop-cultural influence. It's also big enough to sustain a series of movies. It's just not big enough to guarantee blockbuster success, and the general Trek formula (the very thing that created the fans in the first place) is very bad in luring mainstream audiences in, and streamlining Trek to mainstream audiences alienates the hardcore fans that keep the franchise alive in the first place.
I'm not a producer, so I don't know what to do next. But I wouldn't worry for Discovery if it weren't meant to launch a network. For mainstream audiences. If STD manages to change to Neflix soon and will be allowed to be it's own thing, we will have a bright future. As for movies: Beyond doesn't seem ta rake in even 300 mio dollars. That's a bad sign, I wouldn't hold my breath for another big-budget Trek soon.
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Well, marketing did something very wrong because a friend of mine who was well aware of Trek 2009, and Into Darkness during their marketing phases, had absolutely no idea there was a new Trek movie. I've spoken to at least a dozen who had no idea.
Almost every discussion I have seen regarding STB's poor performance has pointed at marketing as a main culprit. The first trailer is almost universally panned as turning a lot of fans off. Despite the ample evidence of this poor initial reaction, Paramount waited too long to release their second "corrective" trailer. Despite your personal experience, I didn't start seeing TV spots until a few weeks before release and I don't believe the multilevel marketing you refer to either made much of an impact or it didn't reach the film's target audience.
I still believe that a better release date combined with better marketing would have put the North American box office in the range of $190 to $200 million when all was said and done.
Despite all the failings domestically I do earnestly believe that this film is set up to succeed in China from the style of the film to having a well known Taiwanese director to having a Chinese media partner to handle publicity and marketing details on the mainland. I don't think that China is just STB's last, best hope for success. I think this movie was designed to appeal to the Chinese market from the beginning. I also expect a solid showing in Latin America. I don't know if we will see a uptake but I definitely don't think we will see a drop either. I think attendance will increase even if the poor exchange rates don't show a big increase in revenue.
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Thanks for mentioning that as I was unaware it even existed. I downloaded it and found this additional quote in the first few pages that, for me, sums up why the new trek movies are good generic summer action movies but not good trek movies.
Ymmv but the new movies do great up until that last sentence.
Are these people who don't watch TV? Because in the two weeks leading up to release, they carpet bombed TV stations with ads for Beyond. I'd see as many as four an hour.
TV ads are not enough. There has to be more. One of the most successful films this year - Deadpool - succeeded because it branched into many different kinds of media to get its message out - See this film! It helped the film that one of the people involved, the actor, had a deep passion for this film and this passion was felt in the advertising. He is actively involved in the process of creating the sequel, so I am confident that the second film will be a success.
I know that some of the people involved with Star Trek Beyond had a fondness for the film and the franchise. Did they have the same passion? If they did, I did not feel the passion.
When I was reading the blurb about Star Trek: Insurrection, I was struck by the comment that some were pointing to weather as a contributing factor. I have read that the low turnout for Star Trek Beyond in Europe was due to a heat wave. Are their theaters not air-conditioned?
I know that some of the people involved with Star Trek Beyond had a fondness for the film and the franchise. Did they have the same passion? If they did, I did not feel the passion.
When I was reading the blurb about Star Trek: Insurrection, I was struck by the comment that some were pointing to weather as a contributing factor. I have read that the low turnout for Star Trek Beyond in Europe was due to a heat wave. Are their theaters not air-conditioned?
Actually Suicide Squad is projected for a mid-50s - 60% drop which is pretty good for a comic book film. Monday saw a very small drop with the film bringing in $13.1 million setting another record for biggest Monday in August.
The film is tracking very well with the under 35 demographic, and under 24 gave the film a CinemaScore A rating.
The film is tracking very well with the under 35 demographic, and under 24 gave the film a CinemaScore A rating.
I am watching Grace Randolph's YouTube channel. She uses the term "Social Media Audience" for Suicide Squad's targeted audience. I think this is a better term than millennials.
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