We just can't predict with any certainty what tastes will be in the future. For all we know, The Beastie Boys may be considered classical music in 200 years.
Why didn't Beyond do better at the Box Office?
- Thread starter The Overlord
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And that future shall be awesome.
For me, the "dip" in the STAR WARS franchise was the latest film, "THE FORCE AWAKENS". And I liked "THE HOBBIT" trilogy overall a lot more than I liked the "LORD OF THE RINGS" trilogy (with the exception of the first film).
As for the latest Trek movie, it wasn't one of the best films I had seen, but I thought it was certainly better than "STAR TREK 2009" or "INTO DARKNESS".
If some people don't like the Prequel movies or "The Hobbit" trilogy, fine. But I do get tired of them expressing their opinions as a fact and pretending that everyone shares the same views.
Look the franchise is not dead it's not like Beyond was a bomb...it's officially a disappointment but not a bomb. Like I said before, the movie franchise has been at similar points before with Star Trek V, Insurrection and then of course the bomb that was Nemesis.
If Star Trek was a franchise with a different studio it might be in more trouble but Star Trek is really the only tent pole franchise Paramount has and Beyond remains Paramount most profitable movie of 2016 so far. Undoubtedly Paramount is going to try and figure out what happened and needs to determine has the general audience lost interest in Star Trek in general or did they just not get excited for Beyond in what was a crowded and lackluster summer.
Based on things Paramount said in the days leading up to Beyond's release, they expected a lower domestic return but it seemed like they hoped for the large international returns that Into Darkness had gained which is not happening.
I'm fairly certain Trek 4 will happen at a somewhat lower budget and will need a much more organized and solid marketing campaign.
If Star Trek was a franchise with a different studio it might be in more trouble but Star Trek is really the only tent pole franchise Paramount has and Beyond remains Paramount most profitable movie of 2016 so far. Undoubtedly Paramount is going to try and figure out what happened and needs to determine has the general audience lost interest in Star Trek in general or did they just not get excited for Beyond in what was a crowded and lackluster summer.
Based on things Paramount said in the days leading up to Beyond's release, they expected a lower domestic return but it seemed like they hoped for the large international returns that Into Darkness had gained which is not happening.
I'm fairly certain Trek 4 will happen at a somewhat lower budget and will need a much more organized and solid marketing campaign.
The international release schedule is out of whack compared to last time (something to do with the Olympics but I'm not sure of the detailed reasoning). Not that I expect a late surge to overcome initial trends but the international take might prove less disappointing than at first glance.
The armchair execs in this thread amuse me.
Budgets and projections are set based on a wide variety of factors, and the assumption that a film must make a certain amount of money to be "profitable" or to "justify a sequel" is amusing when we as fans have no clue where the various players behind the scenes that financed the film got their money or what the film's financiers expected when it came to ROI.
We also don't know the accuracy of the budget number, or exactly how much was spent on marketing.
I also find it amusing that so many accuse Paramount of "skimping" on marketing, somehow thinking that increases in COSTS would increase the PROFIT MARGIN of the film - when said profit margin is what will likely lead to more Trek films.
Anyways, a 40 - 60% drop off after the first weekend is not unheard of and in the age of franchise fatigue and the slow evaporation of movies as THE place fans go to watch a film for the first time - ST:Beyond is doing fine.
It will likely end up at $170-180 million domestic at the end of its run, and double that internationally, particularly when it opens in China - ending up in the $400 million range. Time will tell if that's enough to justify a fourth nuTrek film - but if this is the end - nuTrek went out with a hell of a bang.
@V'ger is spot on with his comments about "elitist" fans - BTW.
Budgets and projections are set based on a wide variety of factors, and the assumption that a film must make a certain amount of money to be "profitable" or to "justify a sequel" is amusing when we as fans have no clue where the various players behind the scenes that financed the film got their money or what the film's financiers expected when it came to ROI.
We also don't know the accuracy of the budget number, or exactly how much was spent on marketing.
I also find it amusing that so many accuse Paramount of "skimping" on marketing, somehow thinking that increases in COSTS would increase the PROFIT MARGIN of the film - when said profit margin is what will likely lead to more Trek films.
Anyways, a 40 - 60% drop off after the first weekend is not unheard of and in the age of franchise fatigue and the slow evaporation of movies as THE place fans go to watch a film for the first time - ST:Beyond is doing fine.
It will likely end up at $170-180 million domestic at the end of its run, and double that internationally, particularly when it opens in China - ending up in the $400 million range. Time will tell if that's enough to justify a fourth nuTrek film - but if this is the end - nuTrek went out with a hell of a bang.
@V'ger is spot on with his comments about "elitist" fans - BTW.
Sorry if you thought I was doing that. I am not that deep in the Star Wars fandom and was just expressing the general view I got when I did stray over there.
The Tolkien fandom I know pretty well and overall the Hobbit pretty much fell short with most fans. I still like it....but generally speaking most of the hardcore fans were...underwhelmed with it.
I will disagree with that. It wasn't the level of say a Disney production (which covers about everything else released this summer) but Paramount doesn't own the world's largest entertainment company and therefore can't spread the costs around.
Also this wasn't going to be a billion dollar film... period... so the whole slow rollout of teasers and teasers of teasers and etc would be a waste of time... and the amount of marketing that was done was deep and varied, just shorter in duration.
Finally, what good does endless commercials do if they don't drive people to the theater? Marketing folks are pretty good at knowing the size and composition of their target audience, and they don't get bonuses for splashing a bunch of money in an attempt to pull in another tenth of a percent of new viewers.
I generally see people regard the Prequels or the Hobbit trilogy as disappointing, across various boards and fan groups, so it is always interesting to other opinions expressed.
Ah, so Paramount has said it's disappointed? Good to know. I remember when everyone said they were "disappointed" in ST ID, even though it still made money. I'm guessing that people will be fired for their failure then.
How can you make such a definitive statement?
The cultural impact is still occurring, and has a different reach and audience than Star Trek did. So, I won't guess at what will be made in 50 years. I'll simply state that Twilight was aimed at a much younger audience that is still growing up, and being impacted.
I guess the best answer to Beyond's box office shortcomings are that people are fickle. You can never tell with certainty what will catch their interests.
There was wall-to-wall TV advertising the two weeks running up to the premiere. But one thing did surprise me, when I went to see Independence Day: Resurgence and Ghostbusters, neither had a Beyond trailer in front of them. This was at the local AMC theater we go to.
There was wall-to-wall TV advertising the two weeks running up to the premiere. But one thing did surprise me, when I went to see Independence Day: Resurgence and Ghostbusters, neither had a Beyond trailer in front of them. This was at the local AMC theater we go to.
I enjoy the Hobbit movies (the first two, anyway) more than the LOTR trilogy. It may have something to do with the fact that I never bothered to watch the LOTR films until after I saw the Hobbit. And I like the feel of the small group quest more than all the epic army battles of LOTR.
But back to STB... I'm still not sure where I will rank it in relation to ST09 and STID. But I do think it's loads of fun.
Kor
But back to STB... I'm still not sure where I will rank it in relation to ST09 and STID. But I do think it's loads of fun.
Kor
As a REAL TREK FAN!!!! I won't be satisfied until the evil minions responsible for the JarJarTrek debacle are taken to an Iowa cornfield and beheaded with fan-made bat'leths, all copies of any JarJarTrek film are BOUGHT back from fans and then publicly burnt, Paramount execs make a public apology while kissing the feet of the Statue of Saint Gene and vowing that they will never again question His glorious vision, and all fan productions are immediately declared canon.
Not only will this reunite the fandom releasing a pent up orgy of spending that will in a year's time allow Paramount to buy Disney but this will also cement the status of Trek in the pantheon of SciFi, a place that only Paramount's greed and short sightedness has kept it from being enshrined.
Not only will this reunite the fandom releasing a pent up orgy of spending that will in a year's time allow Paramount to buy Disney but this will also cement the status of Trek in the pantheon of SciFi, a place that only Paramount's greed and short sightedness has kept it from being enshrined.
Alec?
Why Star Trek Beyond didn't live up to expectations? Here are my theories.
1) Release Date. Originally slated for release on July 8th, Paramount decided to move the date back to July 22nd. Instead of competing with the likes of a dwindling Tarzan for its base audience and then dealing with a high budget, special effects comedy the week after in Ghostbusters (which doesn't completely overlap target audiences) and having 3 full weeks before Jason Bourne . . . . Paramount opted to move to the week before Jason Bourne and two weeks before Suicide Squad (the damage of SS is yet to be determined). The funny thing is that Jason Bourne was ORIGINALLY scheduled to be released on July 15th, the week after Star Trek Beyond. Then Jason Bourne movied back to the 29th giving STB some breathing room . . . until STB moved itself into the previous weekend. I rate this as a pretty boneheaded move in hindsight.
2) Marketing. I've seen some people state the opposite but I've always felt that the Marketing was mediocre at best. There was no real tie-in to the 50th anniversary of Star Trek to take advantage of Nostalgia. The first trailer (and I know some people disagree) was horrible. It looked like some weird action flick in space. Hell, even the director (Lin) and writer (Pegg) came out with a public "WTF was that?!?!?". You never get a second chance to make a first impression and that was it. While subsequent marketing was better it was never overwhelming and never made this movie seem like an event (which is what you need to drag butts into the seats).
3) Fanbase. Face it folks, Star Trek fans have a lot of things in common but the main one it seems is age. We are an older, aging fanbase with very little influx of youth. Aside from your fans dying off there are several additional problems. Older audiences tend not to see a movie more than once. Younger audiences are much more likely to see a movie multiple times. Older audiences also prefer to see a movie in 2D. This means that Star Trek does not get a big boost in IMAZ, PLF and 3D sales compared to other movies. If 20% of the 2D fanbase had chosen to see the movie in those other formats, Star Trek Beyond would have increased its Opening Weekend Box Office to somewhere in the mid or upper $60 million range. It would still have fallen below the first two reboot movies but the dropoff wouldn't have been as extreme. While older fans seem more apt to buy Blue Rays and DVDs they are less comfortable with newer viewing technologies in the theater. Again, because we are older we stick with what we are comfortable with.
4) Storytelling. While the plots of all the JJVerse movies are solid and have gotten solid ratings and reviews they just haven't seemed to been able to hook a younger viewer into the fanbase. They seem to be fun but forgetable. That would be fine in a less crowded market but it isn't doing anything to consistently distinguish itself from other "fun" summer action flicks. Sure, the fans love the characters and the history but these movies don't seem to be creating any history of their own and aren't making the new viewers feel compelled to keep up with the series or the Star Trek universe. And now that the curiousity factor has waned . . . the next movie is going to have to do something to stand out from not only the crowd of other releases but also stand out from the first 3 reboots.
JMHO
1) Release Date. Originally slated for release on July 8th, Paramount decided to move the date back to July 22nd. Instead of competing with the likes of a dwindling Tarzan for its base audience and then dealing with a high budget, special effects comedy the week after in Ghostbusters (which doesn't completely overlap target audiences) and having 3 full weeks before Jason Bourne . . . . Paramount opted to move to the week before Jason Bourne and two weeks before Suicide Squad (the damage of SS is yet to be determined). The funny thing is that Jason Bourne was ORIGINALLY scheduled to be released on July 15th, the week after Star Trek Beyond. Then Jason Bourne movied back to the 29th giving STB some breathing room . . . until STB moved itself into the previous weekend. I rate this as a pretty boneheaded move in hindsight.
2) Marketing. I've seen some people state the opposite but I've always felt that the Marketing was mediocre at best. There was no real tie-in to the 50th anniversary of Star Trek to take advantage of Nostalgia. The first trailer (and I know some people disagree) was horrible. It looked like some weird action flick in space. Hell, even the director (Lin) and writer (Pegg) came out with a public "WTF was that?!?!?". You never get a second chance to make a first impression and that was it. While subsequent marketing was better it was never overwhelming and never made this movie seem like an event (which is what you need to drag butts into the seats).
3) Fanbase. Face it folks, Star Trek fans have a lot of things in common but the main one it seems is age. We are an older, aging fanbase with very little influx of youth. Aside from your fans dying off there are several additional problems. Older audiences tend not to see a movie more than once. Younger audiences are much more likely to see a movie multiple times. Older audiences also prefer to see a movie in 2D. This means that Star Trek does not get a big boost in IMAZ, PLF and 3D sales compared to other movies. If 20% of the 2D fanbase had chosen to see the movie in those other formats, Star Trek Beyond would have increased its Opening Weekend Box Office to somewhere in the mid or upper $60 million range. It would still have fallen below the first two reboot movies but the dropoff wouldn't have been as extreme. While older fans seem more apt to buy Blue Rays and DVDs they are less comfortable with newer viewing technologies in the theater. Again, because we are older we stick with what we are comfortable with.
4) Storytelling. While the plots of all the JJVerse movies are solid and have gotten solid ratings and reviews they just haven't seemed to been able to hook a younger viewer into the fanbase. They seem to be fun but forgetable. That would be fine in a less crowded market but it isn't doing anything to consistently distinguish itself from other "fun" summer action flicks. Sure, the fans love the characters and the history but these movies don't seem to be creating any history of their own and aren't making the new viewers feel compelled to keep up with the series or the Star Trek universe. And now that the curiousity factor has waned . . . the next movie is going to have to do something to stand out from not only the crowd of other releases but also stand out from the first 3 reboots.
JMHO
Mistyped meant another.
I just don't know about this? Most fans who were nostalgic for Trek, would likely show up anyway. Reminding people of the 50th also reminds them that there is a heck of a lot of this stuff around. I know Bond and Who both celebrated, but they both had a heck of a lot less material (and less public failures) than Trek.
But, I'm an outsider looking in.
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