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Why didn't Beyond do better at the Box Office?

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Box Office Mojo says it had a 60 percent drop in revenue from last weekend. By the end of the second week, it's made about $45 million less than STID did at that point in the US. (The second weekend drops for ST09 and STID were in the low 40 percent range.)

Can it all be explained as just a bad year for movies at the box office? All kidding aside, maybe STB was too "Star Trekky?" A little too spot on to TOS? Everyone speaks of all the great character moments, but the action aside, was there enough of a story behind it to otherwise to entertain movie goers who don't get the reference to a big green hand, or appreciate hearing about MACO and the Xindi war, or who those who can indeed get too much of Spock and McCoy going on and on like an old married couple?

Paramount spent $185 million to essentially tell what almost everyone says is a TV-episode quality story done with Tiffany-quality FX. Sadly, the visual spectacle of Yorktown might as well have been replaced by an AMT model of K-7 as far as being enough of a visual feast on its own to draw the interest of non-fan movie goers.

And, given Trek has never been as popular abroad as other American movie franchises, will a Trek a story that everyone says "feels" like TOS attract foreign movie goers in the numbers of those who went to see STID? Looks like it will be more like regressing back towards ST09 numbers, depending on China and Japan.

I say these things out of great love of the franchise and having liked STB for what it was as a fan. But while it was certainly not intentional, maybe STB turned out to be too much of a familiar valentine for fans at the expense of keeping the feel of freshness and accessibility that drew people to ST09 and STID. It does seem to be a movie best appreciated by those who were already fans.

Don't know, really. Just a rant, I guess. Everyone wants to see the things they root for wildly succeed.

Actually largely yes much of this can be explained by it being a bad year or rather a truly bad summer for tentpole movies. The release calendar was far too packed to give anything enough breathing room. The glut of fairly high quality kids or family friendly animated fare dug deeply into the pool of butts to put in seats for the lush budget spectacles. STB released late in the season as audience burnout is starting to set in. With a new loud explody movie every week. And few of them all that good since Captain America, the audiences just tuned out. And even then they really didn't...

The studios over expected. Hollywood is notorious for learning the wrong message. Last year Star Wars raked in a Billion. As did several other large tentpole movies. Which leads every studio to simply assume that their tentpole movie will do that well. Without fully appreciating the subtleties of the IP's in question, and more importantly, without showing any reasonable restraint in budgeting. STB at a $100-120 million production budget would have been a rousing financial success. And just how much does anybody really think those extra 10's of millions bought? Was it anything that the audience remembered 10 minutes after they walked out?

This movie was a good tight episodic type Star Trek story. If it had been restricted to a traditional good tight Star Trek budget it would have been one of the summers success stories. somewhere along the line Paramount and Hollywood in general forgot the lesson "Do more with less!" At the end of the day there is no fault in the writing, directing, cast, story or execution of STB other than budget. It's not like Ghostbusters or TMNT or BvS where you can see the edit holes and badly hacked story bits scotch taped in all over the place. You can see where those productions went off the rails right there on screen. STB executed well. It's only problem was overspending.
 
Actually largely yes much of this can be explained by it being a bad year or rather a truly bad summer for tentpole movies. The release calendar was far too packed to give anything enough breathing room. The glut of fairly high quality kids or family friendly animated fare dug deeply into the pool of butts to put in seats for the lush budget spectacles. STB released late in the season as audience burnout is starting to set in. With a new loud explody movie every week. And few of them all that good since Captain America, the audiences just tuned out. And even then they really didn't...

The studios over expected. Hollywood is notorious for learning the wrong message. Last year Star Wars raked in a Billion. As did several other large tentpole movies. Which leads every studio to simply assume that their tentpole movie will do that well. Without fully appreciating the subtleties of the IP's in question, and more importantly, without showing any reasonable restraint in budgeting. STB at a $100-120 million production budget would have been a rousing financial success. And just how much does anybody really think those extra 10's of millions bought? Was it anything that the audience remembered 10 minutes after they walked out?

This movie was a good tight episodic type Star Trek story. If it had been restricted to a traditional good tight Star Trek budget it would have been one of the summers success stories. somewhere along the line Paramount and Hollywood in general forgot the lesson "Do more with less!" At the end of the day there is no fault in the writing, directing, cast, story or execution of STB other than budget. It's not like Ghostbusters or TMNT or BvS where you can see the edit holes and badly hacked story bits scotch taped in all over the place. You can see where those productions went off the rails right there on screen. STB executed well. It's only problem was overspending.
I'd agree with that. It was a good "Star Trek" story well told on the whole, but it wasn't a $185 million story. To restate something I said in another post a bit differently, it was also a "Star Trek" movie worth seeing, but to general audiences, unlike ST09 and STID, it wasn't a movie worth seeing. I'd say that's why fan reaction to this movie is so overwhelmingly greatly positive despite the cool box office. That and like you said, it's just an odd year for movies.
 
Hmm. I must've missed or forgotten about that bikini-clad aliens stealing brains episode. Gotta check my TOS DVDs more closely

Heh, whaddaya know. The tops of those dresses actually were attached to the skirts. I'd always assumed they would have gone on in two pieces.

That's the criterial TOS element missing from BEY - thing-high boots that you practically have to hold up with garters.
 
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I'd agree with that. It was a good "Star Trek" story well told on the whole, but it wasn't a $185 million story. To restate something I said in another post a bit differently, it was also a "Star Trek" movie worth seeing, but to general audiences, unlike ST09 and STID, it wasn't a movie worth seeing. I'd say that's why fan reaction to this movie is so overwhelmingly greatly positive despite the cool box office. That and like you said, it's just an odd year for movies.

Honestly if it had been able to stand on its own, without the assorted animated Doggie and Fish movies yipping at its heels it likely would have had a better BO return than either of the previous nuTrek movies. It effectively lost ~ $10-12 million each weekend to the long legs of Secret Life of Pets. It also had a strong counter programming contender at the same time. So much of it was a scheduling issue. But this also shows the big problem. Would the Box Office returns from ST2009 or STID have been enough to bring a good return on a $185 million movie? Hell no! They would be in exactly the same place as this one. And this same story gets repeated Over and over this summer. X-Men, same thing. Third movie in cycle. Obscene budget. Returns reasonable to last three but nowhere near what the new budget needs. TMNT 2 same deal. Tarzan likely would have been the best unexpected financial success of the summer if they had controlled the budget.

Star Trek likely is in the best position of all the late summer underperforming blockbusters. The home market for the movie is well known, well documented and about as faithful and dependable as any group of consumers will ever get. It will make back its money easy on DVD/BluRay and Streaming. Others might not be so lucky (looking at you TMNT's and Ghostbusters.)

The only thing remaining this summer that will do truly well is Suicide Squad. That's tapping into a few inter-sectional points of fandom. Some view it as like Deadpool. Some are going for the Batman/Joker stuff. Some because it is a "Gangsta Comic Type Movie". It will play well. Especially since there is little else between it and Thanksgiving. Other movies such as the fascinating looking Kubo are going to get steamrolled. (why oh why can Laika never catch a break?) It should have released either towards Thanksgiving or Christmas and the holidays (but everyone stays away from Star Wars movies) or in the early Spring when it could run the summer as a long legged 3-4 lace kids movie like Pets and Dory. August is death.
 
Star Trek (2009), Into Darkness and Beyond are almost identical movies. Big bang action adventures, with a lot of attention for special effects and explosions and less time for story and character. The first one was new and fresh and I really liked, the second one was a rip off and by the third I just thought 'meh'. I choked up when I saw the 1989 cast photo and the picture of Ambassador Spock telling us he had died. Why? Because I'm invested in these characters. I'm not invested in NuTrek (yet).

Star Trek XIV should be really different from the last three. No more focus on big explosions and special effects which make the budget go sky high... I want a slow movie, with focus on people and story on a smaller budget. After that Star Trek XV could be all about shooting and blowing things up for all I care.

Give us some diversity and I'm not sure Bad Robot can deliver on that.
 
Star Trek (2009), Into Darkness and Beyond are almost identical movies. Big bang action adventures, with a lot of attention for special effects and explosions and less time for story and character.
Yeah, I keep reading about how Beyond is a return to Trek's roots, which is just wishful thinking. It's just the third in the series and has little to distinguish itself from the first two. In fact Mark Kermode's review compared it unfavorably to them.

Beyond isn't an overlooked gem, it's just another in the series.
 
Maybe it didn't do better because it wasn't good enough to for the target audience? I just saw the movie earlier today and wasn't particularly impressed compared with the previous two.

The only way people can come to that conclusion is if they see it first. The film has decent word of mouth. "The reason it isn't performing well as the last two is because *I* didn't like it..." That's now how this works.

I've said it before, but I think it's just the marketing and the overall box office this summer that's hurting it. Up until the Fan Event, there was almost virtually no marketing other than the teaser trailer that got a lukewarm response. I remember the HUGE build up to the first film. There were specials, Entertainment Weekly covers, this and that, etc. etc. Abrams went around the world pushing it. The Superbowl commercial, etc. TrekMovie was ALL over it. "Into Darkness" maybe had a slightly less buildup but there was still a respectable amount. The real push for the movie didn't even start until only two months before it came out and it was admittedly a very compressed marketing campaign and it was still not up to the standards the last two films gave us. Yes we started getting the posters and the commercials and the fan event trailer, but I don't think it was enough to truly build this up to the movie event of the summer.
 
Because it's average movie at best. It's more like star wars than star trek. cgi, cgi explosions, superheroes etc.. it's a flop and in my opinion it's a well earned flop and i'm glad people are not so dumb that they will pay for everything that greedy and lazy studios will throw at them
 
I think it will be interesting to see where the next film goes. Both Into Darkness and Beyond have had a good reviews but while Beyond appears to have been more liked by the traditional fans Into Darkness made more money. The studio may then decide to go back to a bigger star as the bad guy and rehash an old story.
 
Every franchise has its dips. The dreaded SW prequels, the Hobbit (I admit I watch it but it falls into the 'guilty pleasure' category and not 'one of my favorite movies ever! column), Not to mention all the reboots and remakes of Spiderman, Superman, Batman etc etc...it happens.

Remember DS9? One of the best-written, if not the best written, series of the franchise but the ratings were...not exactly steller. Once again, it happens.

I personally would not mind if this was the last of the Kelvin-verse movies because it gives Kirk a full character arc, going from punk to seasoned Captain to becoming more like the man we saw in TOS. Spock has grown as well, not as emotional and the friendship between the big three has developed. All the big bangs and explosions are just window dressing for me. However, I will not complain if they do make a fourth one. More Star Trek is always a good thing.

Another good thing is most of these actors already have established careers and don't 'need' this job and will probably escape typecasting.
 
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For my Money, this one was the best of the 3. It just felt right and the character writing was far and away better than anything the last two movies did. I always felt like I was watching Caricatures in the first two films. The scripts littered with, 'Kirk sleeps with lots of alien women, have him sleep with a green chick...Kirk loves green chicks', or in the second movie he's having a 3 way. Trek 2009 gets a pass from me since it's an origin movie, Into Darkness...meh, saw it once and haven't been able to sit through it again, however...Beyond drew me back into the theater for a Matinee yesterday, and I'll be damned if I didn't enjoy it more the second time. Just my opinion, but it's the real deal for me. They got so much right.

If I have one complaint, it's that the fight scenes were cropped far too tight. Sometimes you can't even see who threw a punch or where it landed, just things movie. That type of framing always bugged me.

As an aside, I listed to an interview with the guy who redesigned the JJ Prise for this, and designed the 1701-A for the ending. It was really cool listening to his thought process. He loved Matt Jefferies original ship and talked about how he deconstructed the design, finding ways to harken back to that simplicity while also drawing on elements from events in Beyond to reflect design changes due to what happened to the JJ Prise. Between Doug and Simon's writing and the ship designs, I found the whole movie extremely thoughtful.
 
Because it's average movie at best. It's more like star wars than star trek. cgi, cgi explosions, superheroes etc.. it's a flop and in my opinion it's a well earned flop and i'm glad people are not so dumb that they will pay for everything that greedy and lazy studios will throw at them
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Actually largely yes much of this can be explained by it being a bad year or rather a truly bad summer for tentpole movies.

Or maybe just a year of a lot of bland and uninspiring summer movies. What exactly did all these flops offer moviegoers other than the same old rehashed plots in a new format?

The release calendar was far too packed to give anything enough breathing room. The glut of fairly high quality kids or family friendly animated fare dug deeply into the pool of butts to put in seats for the lush budget spectacles. STB released late in the season as audience burnout is starting to set in. With a new loud explody movie every week. And few of them all that good since Captain America, the audiences just tuned out. And even then they really didn't...

An interesting theory (viewer burnout). However, Jason Bourne seems to have done about 20% higher than it was tracking for and Suicide is doing pretty well in presales which suggests that audiences aren't necessarily as burned out as they are disinterested in the movies that have been released. And JB didn't even get that good of reviews. Suicide Squad might also get lesser reviews (less than STB).

The studios over expected. Hollywood is notorious for learning the wrong message. Last year Star Wars raked in a Billion. As did several other large tentpole movies. Which leads every studio to simply assume that their tentpole movie will do that well. Without fully appreciating the subtleties of the IP's in question, and more importantly, without showing any reasonable restraint in budgeting. STB at a $100-120 million production budget would have been a rousing financial success. And just how much does anybody really think those extra 10's of millions bought? Was it anything that the audience remembered 10 minutes after they walked out?

If you think that a Star Trek movie can be made for that amount in this day and age you are not current on the industry. In addition, cutting a production budget from 160 to 120 million while your marketing budget is still going to stay about $150-250 million . . . . does it make sense to try and sell a cheaper movie to audiences (general and foreign) who are attracted to the items you are removing? That sounds like being penny wise and pound foolish.

This movie was a good tight episodic type Star Trek story. If it had been restricted to a traditional good tight Star Trek budget it would have been one of the summers success stories. somewhere along the line Paramount and Hollywood in general forgot the lesson "Do more with less!" At the end of the day there is no fault in the writing, directing, cast, story or execution of STB other than budget. It's not like Ghostbusters or TMNT or BvS where you can see the edit holes and badly hacked story bits scotch taped in all over the place. You can see where those productions went off the rails right there on screen. STB executed well. It's only problem was overspending.

Once again, you act as if overspending was simply due to the frivolous nature of the director and production staff rather than the reality of how movies are made and their associated costs (including overruns). Trust me when I say that producers biggest focus when making movies are how to cut production costs. It's easier said than done.

Honestly if it had been able to stand on its own, without the assorted animated Doggie and Fish movies yipping at its heels it likely would have had a better BO return than either of the previous nuTrek movies. It effectively lost ~ $10-12 million each weekend to the long legs of Secret Life of Pets. It also had a strong counter programming contender at the same time. So much of it was a scheduling issue. But this also shows the big problem. Would the Box Office returns from ST2009 or STID have been enough to bring a good return on a $185 million movie? Hell no! They would be in exactly the same place as this one. And this same story gets repeated Over and over this summer. X-Men, same thing. Third movie in cycle. Obscene budget. Returns reasonable to last three but nowhere near what the new budget needs. TMNT 2 same deal. Tarzan likely would have been the best unexpected financial success of the summer if they had controlled the budget.

First of all, Pets and Dory had little to NO impact on Star Trek Beyond. You couldn't have a more differing audience set if you had put it up against "A Tale of Two Cities - the Musical!". STB has an average viewer in his late 30's and 40's. Those movies you think "stole" STB's box office compare with an average viewer in his pre-school to late elementary school ages. Go look at all the numerous posts about the age of people in screenings posters have attended. Plus those movies were in their what . . . . 4th and 6th weekends which means it didn't even impact screen count. You are grasping at straws there.

Star Trek likely is in the best position of all the late summer underperforming blockbusters. The home market for the movie is well known, well documented and about as faithful and dependable as any group of consumers will ever get. It will make back its money easy on DVD/BluRay and Streaming. Others might not be so lucky (looking at you TMNT's and Ghostbusters.)

This is true, although the home market is a shell of what it was during its heyday. STB should still be able to (hopefully) make $30-60 million of video sales. Studios typically keep around 70% of home video revenue. But this is a paltry amount compared to the past when it seemed like every movie used to be able to make between $40-100 million in sales. To make a point. Star Trek 09 made almost $200 million. Star Trek Into Darkness made around $85 million. In 2009 though, 22 movies made $60 million or more in video sales. Last year, the number of films that cracked $60 million was less than half that. And a lot of the top sellers in home video are often animated films.

The only thing remaining this summer that will do truly well is Suicide Squad. That's tapping into a few inter-sectional points of fandom. Some view it as like Deadpool. Some are going for the Batman/Joker stuff. Some because it is a "Gangsta Comic Type Movie". It will play well. Especially since there is little else between it and Thanksgiving. Other movies such as the fascinating looking Kubo are going to get steamrolled. (why oh why can Laika never catch a break?) It should have released either towards Thanksgiving or Christmas and the holidays (but everyone stays away from Star Wars movies) or in the early Spring when it could run the summer as a long legged 3-4 lace kids movie like Pets and Dory. August is death.

Laika can't catch a break because people don't care for stop motion animation. It's inefficient and takes a long time to make.
Release STB in November? Against Doctor Strange, Fantastic Beasts and the Holiday's themselves??? Release in December against Rogue one (a much more popular movie franchise of the same genre)? Or in hindsight does it seem like it would have been smart to open in February against Deadpool, in March against Batman V Superman, in April against Jungle Book or May against Civil War? And that doesn't include all the other movies that could have been competition but basically disappointed.

You only have a (roughly) 9 week release and the number of screens you are allocated is as much based on how well you do and what movies are releasing before and after you. Do you want to spend screen time in a portion of the year where box office attendance is half of what it is in the summer? There's a reason there is often less competition at certain times of the year . . . it's because people tend to not go to the movies in those times. That doesn't make them a great place to slot your big blockbuster release.
 
The generation that has been impacted by those franchises is still growing up. It's impact will be felt for a while, and still mandates scrutiny within the broader cultural context.

Do you think they are going to be making Twilight or 50 Shades of Gray films in the year 2066? Will we be celebrating their 50th anniversary? Give me a break. In no way are they on the same level as Star Trek as far as cultural significance is concerned.
 
Do you think they are going to be making Twilight or 50 Shades of Gray films in the year 2066? Will we be celebrating their 50th anniversary? Give me a break. In no way are they on the same level as Star Trek as far as cultural significance is concerned.

One, I'll be dead, so I really don't care.

Two, maybe we have been overestimating Star Trek's significance? For a long time, it was really the only sci-fi game in town. Once it started running up against competition, it started to falter.
 
One, I'll be dead, so I really don't care.

Two, maybe we have been overestimating Star Trek's significance? For a long time, it was really the only sci-fi game in town. Once it started running up against competition, it started to falter.

I'll be in my 80's, I'll have better things to be worrying about. :lol:
 
Do you think they are going to be making Twilight or 50 Shades of Gray films in the year 2066? Will we be celebrating their 50th anniversary? Give me a break. In no way are they on the same level as Star Trek as far as cultural significance is concerned.

50 Shades of Gray will forever be more popular for its "target" audience (middle aged women) than Star Trek will ever be. Twilight essentially created the boom of the young adult movie genre. I can list a half dozen movies off the top of my head that came to be directly because of the success of twilight - Hunger Games, Divergent, Host, Warm Bodies, The 5th Wave, Mortal Instruments, The Maze, etc. That's a pretty big impact on the industry. When talking about movies alone, Star Trek needed a movie like Star Wars to finally get kickstarted on the big screen. And just about all the space, science fiction movies since Star Wars are due to the groundbreaking success of the Star Wars series, not because of Star Trek.

One, I'll be dead, so I really don't care.

Two, maybe we have been overestimating Star Trek's significance? For a long time, it was really the only sci-fi game in town. Once it started running up against competition, it started to falter.

I am trying to think of other sci-fi series on television around the time of TOS. Space 1999, Battlestar Galactica, Buck Rogers, etc . . . . there weren't too many in that era and I'm not sure how much influence Star Trek had on them other than having a three year run as a prime time space fantasy series. TNG might have had more impact due to its longevity and consistency. I wouldn't say shows like Firefly, Babylon 5 and even Andromeda took much of a thematic influence from Star Trek.

Now that I think about it, I've always been a Star Trek guy (though some of the later series simply failed to capture my interest) but to be honest . . . the commercial success of Star Wars has done far more to create the genre and make it cool and acceptable than anything Star Trek probably did. Though Star Trek did much more in terms of storytelling by examining relevant themes, social issues and philosophical messages than anything Star Wars did or ever will do.
 
Do you think they are going to be making Twilight or 50 Shades of Gray films in the year 2066? Will we be celebrating their 50th anniversary? Give me a break. In no way are they on the same level as Star Trek as far as cultural significance is concerned.

I read the first Twilight book on release, and didn't think it would ever amount to anything. Not good enough for popularity, or bad enough for infamy. (This was before the second one was published, and it didn't even had those black covers that are so famous. )

Yet Twilight is about 10 years old now, and had another book come out this year. It's also apparently due for a tv (or possibly Internet) series sometime in the future.

I'm not exactly happy that Twilight's managed to have legs, but fact is that it's at least catching up with TNG's...duration(?) of cultural relevance. It's certainly stuck around longer than DS9, VOY, TAS, and ENT.

So who the fuck knows if it will still be 'big' in 50 years?
 
Do you think they are going to be making Twilight or 50 Shades of Gray films in the year 2066? Will we be celebrating their 50th anniversary? Give me a break. In no way are they on the same level as Star Trek as far as cultural significance is concerned.
There is no way to tell. I guarantee that when Trek was as "young" as Fifty Shades, or even Twilight, a 50th anniversary was not a serious expectation. Just because it doesn't seem important or relevant to you doesn't mean it won't have legs. Trek is not overly important or relevant to the vast majority of humanity (nor has it ever been). Didn't stop it from getting to a 50th.
 
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