Why did they make Linda Park's character Japanese?

[Irishman]

I so agree with your part here about national boundaries disappearing in the future. I would imagine that, by the time of Kirk and Spock, to be realistic, the cast should be multiracial to reflect that. Have a cast of Barack Obama, Jessica Alba, and Tiger Woods. The Nordic blondes have only about 100 years or so to go before they're a thing of the past.

That story is just a popular nonsense with no scientific basis. There's no reason to think that blonds will "disappear in 200 years" or whatever that hoax 'news story' reported. Not even redheads are showing any signs of dying out, even though red hair is a trait transmitted through a recessive gene that only 4% of the human population have. It sounds more like paranoid nonsense than anything. For that matter, straight hair, lack of pimples and freckles, and baldness don't show any signs of disappearing either, and those are recessive genes, too...

Mobility of population and diminished importance of boundaries only leads to more diversity, rather than less.

You don't understand what happens when people get to travel to the other ends of the earth, do you? On a more limited scale, it happens to soldiers from time immemorial until now.

They meet and fall in love (or at least lust) with the natives. Differences will be bred out of humanity, not preserved.

 

[RandyS]

Jokes aside, the issue is, can you (definitely) tell a Korean person from a Japanese person, or a Chinese person from a Japanese person, from their looks?

"You" may not be able to tell the difference but that certainly doesn't mean there is no difference, nor does it mean that "people" cannot tell the difference.

I believe DevilEye's point was that people of Oriental descent all appear the same at first glance. It's the same with us White Americans. At first glance, you can't tell the difference between us and a White person from Canada. It's the same with Black people from either country. James Kirk is an example. Shatner is from Canada, but Kirk is from Iowa.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Welcome to Star Trek, where African and Japanese characters are played by American actors without adjustment, and Scottish, Russian and other white non-Americans are played by actors with poor fake accents.

In later decades, of course, the occasional authentic British accent is permitted - doesn't matter where the character is supposed to come from.

Trek has been so popular over the decades in areas like Europe that I always wonder if they don't "get" the implicit and doubtless unintended message - that in three or four centuries the entire world will be American.

They aren't implying anything, you're inferring. I never thought that in all the years I've watched it. The characters are multi-national, that is the message they're sending. Doesn't matter who is playing them. Otherwise you could argue that on Pike's ship, he didn't allow any minorities. Aside from the oriental transporter assistant (and Spock), everyone was white as snow.

Why do you single out Star Trek? Especially in the 60's, it was common practice to put "Asian" make up appliances on non-Asians in major roles and have the actors approximate an accent. How many of the Russians depected in cold war TV shows actually hired Russians?

Even today, most Americans playing people from other countries are done with an accent, whether accurate or not. And on the other side of the coin, how many non-Americans are tapped to play characters who are asked to use an American type accent? Jamie Bamber did an amazing job and I had no idea it was a phony voice until I saw a special on BSG.

Also: Hugh Jackman plays a Canadian in the X-Men films, and Americans in many others. Bob Hoskins was a grizzled reporter from the states in Roger Rabbit. How about all the crappy American accents on Doctor Who? Are you saying that Star Trek is to be criticized for being typical?

Producers go for the best actors for the part. If they can do an accent approximation, great. I can't imagine anyone saying "we should only cast actors with the same ethnic background as the characters."

 

[Dukhat]

Welcome to Star Trek, where African and Japanese characters are played by American actors without adjustment, and Scottish, Russian and other white non-Americans are played by actors with poor fake accents.

Which was always what bugged me about ENTERPRISE (among other things). This ship was supposed to be crewed by representatives from every nation of a united Earth. So where were the Russians? The Chinese? The Indians? The Germans? The French? The Italians? The Africans? The Swedes? The Irish? The Latinos? The Canadians? The Koreans? The Vietnamese? The Polish? The (insert country of origin here)? I work near Washington, DC, and every day I see nationalities of all kinds, who are also most likely American citizens as well. It just didn't seem realistic to me, but that's just me I guess.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I so agree with your part here about national boundaries disappearing in the future. I would imagine that, by the time of Kirk and Spock, to be realistic, the cast should be multiracial to reflect that. Have a cast of Barack Obama, Jessica Alba, and Tiger Woods. The Nordic blondes have only about 100 years or so to go before they're a thing of the past.

That story is just a popular nonsense with no scientific basis. There's no reason to think that blonds will "disappear in 200 years" or whatever that hoax 'news story' reported. Not even redheads are showing any signs of dying out, even though red hair is a trait transmitted through a recessive gene that only 4% of the human population have. It sounds more like paranoid nonsense than anything. For that matter, straight hair, lack of pimples and freckles, and baldness don't show any signs of disappearing either, and those are recessive genes, too...

Mobility of population and diminished importance of boundaries only leads to more diversity, rather than less.

You don't understand what happens when people get to travel to the other ends of the earth, do you? On a more limited scale, it happens to soldiers from time immemorial until now.

They meet and fall in love (or at least lust) with the natives. Differences will be bred out of humanity, not preserved.

The problem with that theory ( IMO) is that you're not always going to have enough immigrants/soldiers/travellers to make a significant impact on every population worldwide. There will still be relativily homogenous populations.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Welcome to Star Trek, where African and Japanese characters are played by American actors without adjustment, and Scottish, Russian and other white non-Americans are played by actors with poor fake accents.

Which was always what bugged me about ENTERPRISE (among other things). This ship was supposed to be crewed by representatives from every nation of a united Earth. So where were the Russians? The Chinese? The Indians? The Germans? The French? The Italians? The Africans? The Swedes? The Irish? The Latinos? The Canadians? The Koreans? The Vietnamese? The Polish? The (insert country of origin here)? I work near Washington, DC, and every day I see nationalities of all kinds, who are also most likely American citizens as well. It just didn't seem realistic to me, but that's just me I guess.

How many background/supporting characters on ENTERPRISE ( or any of the other shows) wore signs proclaiming where they were from? Unless they were given a name or line of dialog how would you tell?

 

[Irishman]

That story is just a popular nonsense with no scientific basis. There's no reason to think that blonds will "disappear in 200 years" or whatever that hoax 'news story' reported. Not even redheads are showing any signs of dying out, even though red hair is a trait transmitted through a recessive gene that only 4% of the human population have. It sounds more like paranoid nonsense than anything. For that matter, straight hair, lack of pimples and freckles, and baldness don't show any signs of disappearing either, and those are recessive genes, too...

Mobility of population and diminished importance of boundaries only leads to more diversity, rather than less.

You don't understand what happens when people get to travel to the other ends of the earth, do you? On a more limited scale, it happens to soldiers from time immemorial until now.

They meet and fall in love (or at least lust) with the natives. Differences will be bred out of humanity, not preserved.

The problem with that theory ( IMO) is that you're not always going to have enough immigrants/soldiers/travellers to make a significant impact on every population worldwide. There will still be relativily homogenous populations.

I'm not talking about a contiunation of the soldier model. I'm talking about Star Trek future model, where travel to any point on the globe is as simple as stepping on a transporter pad.

Under that kind of a vision, racial divisions will be erased.

 

[Dukhat]

Welcome to Star Trek, where African and Japanese characters are played by American actors without adjustment, and Scottish, Russian and other white non-Americans are played by actors with poor fake accents.

Which was always what bugged me about ENTERPRISE (among other things). This ship was supposed to be crewed by representatives from every nation of a united Earth. So where were the Russians? The Chinese? The Indians? The Germans? The French? The Italians? The Africans? The Swedes? The Irish? The Latinos? The Canadians? The Koreans? The Vietnamese? The Polish? The (insert country of origin here)? I work near Washington, DC, and every day I see nationalities of all kinds, who are also most likely American citizens as well. It just didn't seem realistic to me, but that's just me I guess.

How many background/supporting characters on ENTERPRISE ( or any of the other shows) wore signs proclaiming where they were from? Unless they were given a name or line of dialog how would you tell?

That's my whole point...there should have been more characters from other countries as either main characters or secondary characters. For example, was there a reason why the character of Elizabeth Cutler couldn't have been played by, say, a Swedish actress with a Swedish character name?

 

[Nerys Myk]

You don't understand what happens when people get to travel to the other ends of the earth, do you? On a more limited scale, it happens to soldiers from time immemorial until now.

They meet and fall in love (or at least lust) with the natives. Differences will be bred out of humanity, not preserved.

The problem with that theory ( IMO) is that you're not always going to have enough immigrants/soldiers/travellers to make a significant impact on every population worldwide. There will still be relativily homogenous populations.

I'm not talking about a contiunation of the soldier model. I'm talking about Star Trek future model, where travel to any point on the globe is as simple as stepping on a transporter pad.

Under that kind of a vision, racial divisions will be erased.

I did include "immigrant".

Assuming that people in significant numbers will want to go to location X and will procreate.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Which was always what bugged me about ENTERPRISE (among other things). This ship was supposed to be crewed by representatives from every nation of a united Earth. So where were the Russians? The Chinese? The Indians? The Germans? The French? The Italians? The Africans? The Swedes? The Irish? The Latinos? The Canadians? The Koreans? The Vietnamese? The Polish? The (insert country of origin here)? I work near Washington, DC, and every day I see nationalities of all kinds, who are also most likely American citizens as well. It just didn't seem realistic to me, but that's just me I guess.

How many background/supporting characters on ENTERPRISE ( or any of the other shows) wore signs proclaiming where they were from? Unless they were given a name or line of dialog how would you tell?

That's my whole point...there should have been more characters from other countries as either main characters or secondary characters. For example, was there a reason why the character of Elizabeth Cutler couldn't have been played by, say, a Swedish actress with a Swedish character name?

Do we even know where Cutler is from?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Welcome to Star Trek, where African and Japanese characters are played by American actors without adjustment, and Scottish, Russian and other white non-Americans are played by actors with poor fake accents.

In later decades, of course, the occasional authentic British accent is permitted - doesn't matter where the character is supposed to come from.

Trek has been so popular over the decades in areas like Europe that I always wonder if they don't "get" the implicit and doubtless unintended message - that in three or four centuries the entire world will be American.

They aren't implying anything, you're inferring.

Actually, it's completely obvious.

I never thought that in all the years I've watched it. The characters are multi-national, that is the message they're sending.

The message they're sending is "everyone will think and act exactly like Americans, except for bad accents and jokes based on nationalism."

There is no trace of evidence that much importantly non-Western other than costuming and works of art have survived - and as to the latter, of course, even today American and European museums are already filled with art lifted from other nations...many of which would like a lot of it back.

I do remember a passing reference to Sun Tzu in one episode, and doubtless somewhere in seven hundred hours or so there are a couple of others. Not nearly enough to begin to address the self-aggrandizingly American nature of the show, though.

I work near Washington, DC, and every day I see nationalities of all kinds, who are also most likely American citizens as well. It just didn't seem realistic to me, but that's just me I guess.

Yep - there's more cultural and national diversity within a six-block radius of my apartment than has been effectively portrayed in nearly fifty years of Star Trek - and that includes the alleged aliens on the shows.

 

[Dukhat]

How many background/supporting characters on ENTERPRISE ( or any of the other shows) wore signs proclaiming where they were from? Unless they were given a name or line of dialog how would you tell?

That's my whole point...there should have been more characters from other countries as either main characters or secondary characters. For example, was there a reason why the character of Elizabeth Cutler couldn't have been played by, say, a Swedish actress with a Swedish character name?

Do we even know where Cutler is from?

No, but from her name, accent and mannerisms, I'd assume she's from the good ol' US of A. And if it were explicitly stated that she was, say, a Norwegian citizen from Norway, that would just kinda reinforce the point Dennis is making. Of course, that's just my opinion. But she's just one example.

 

[Dukhat]

Oops, double post.

 

[Nerys Myk]

That's my whole point...there should have been more characters from other countries as either main characters or secondary characters. For example, was there a reason why the character of Elizabeth Cutler couldn't have been played by, say, a Swedish actress with a Swedish character name?

Do we even know where Cutler is from?

No, but from her name, accent and mannerisms, I'd assume she's from the good ol' US of A. And if it were explicitly stated that she was, say, a Norwegian citizen from Norway, that would just kinda reinforce the point Dennis is making. Of course, that's just my opinion. But she's just one example.

Well I agree with his and your point but in most productions you're going to work with the available resources. In Hollywood those resources tend to be American. So we have to imagine that Extra #2 is from Sweden and Extra #3 is from Botswana.

 

[DevilEyes]

I so agree with your part here about national boundaries disappearing in the future. I would imagine that, by the time of Kirk and Spock, to be realistic, the cast should be multiracial to reflect that. Have a cast of Barack Obama, Jessica Alba, and Tiger Woods. The Nordic blondes have only about 100 years or so to go before they're a thing of the past.

That story is just a popular nonsense with no scientific basis. There's no reason to think that blonds will "disappear in 200 years" or whatever that hoax 'news story' reported. Not even redheads are showing any signs of dying out, even though red hair is a trait transmitted through a recessive gene that only 4% of the human population have. It sounds more like paranoid nonsense than anything. For that matter, straight hair, lack of pimples and freckles, and baldness don't show any signs of disappearing either, and those are recessive genes, too...

Mobility of population and diminished importance of boundaries only leads to more diversity, rather than less.

You don't understand what happens when people get to travel to the other ends of the earth, do you? On a more limited scale, it happens to soldiers from time immemorial until now.

They meet and fall in love (or at least lust) with the natives. Differences will be bred out of humanity, not preserved.

LOL When people from very different ethnic groups have children together, this leads to more diversity. Instead of group A and group B only reproducing among themselves and in doing so, creating groups that inaccurately get categorized as "races" (if a large group of red-haired people lived in isolation for many generations and only reproduced among themselves, the result would be something one could call a "red-haired race"), we get people from A reproducing with B - which leads to more diversity. (At the same time there are still lots of As reproducing with As and Bs reproducing with Bs).

The idea about "differences being bred out of humanity" is a complete and utter nonsense with no scientific basis. This could only perhaps have a chance of happening if there was a systematic large-scale planet-wide attempt to breed out certain traits from the human population by highly controlled selective breeding. (Now there's a concept for an SF anti-utopia...)

 

[DevilEyes]

Which was always what bugged me about ENTERPRISE (among other things). This ship was supposed to be crewed by representatives from every nation of a united Earth. So where were the Russians? The Chinese? The Indians? The Germans? The French? The Italians? The Africans? The Swedes? The Irish? The Latinos? The Canadians? The Koreans? The Vietnamese? The Polish? The (insert country of origin here)? I work near Washington, DC, and every day I see nationalities of all kinds, who are also most likely American citizens as well. It just didn't seem realistic to me, but that's just me I guess.

How many background/supporting characters on ENTERPRISE ( or any of the other shows) wore signs proclaiming where they were from? Unless they were given a name or line of dialog how would you tell?

That's my whole point...there should have been more characters from other countries as either main characters or secondary characters. For example, was there a reason why the character of Elizabeth Cutler couldn't have been played by, say, a Swedish actress with a Swedish character name?

Yes. The show was made in USA and it was much easier to audition for an American actress than a Swedish one.

Of course, they could have hired an American actress to play a character with a Swedish name, who may or may not fake a Swedish accent.

 

[Dukhat]

How many background/supporting characters on ENTERPRISE ( or any of the other shows) wore signs proclaiming where they were from? Unless they were given a name or line of dialog how would you tell?

That's my whole point...there should have been more characters from other countries as either main characters or secondary characters. For example, was there a reason why the character of Elizabeth Cutler couldn't have been played by, say, a Swedish actress with a Swedish character name?

Yes. The show was made in USA and it was much easier to audition for an American actress than a Swedish one.

Of course, they could have hired an American actress to play a character with a Swedish name, who may or may not fake a Swedish accent.

Trust me, if they really wanted to get a Swedish actress, they'd be able to. But yes, it is much easier to get an American actor to fake an accent.

 

[Nerys Myk]

That's my whole point...there should have been more characters from other countries as either main characters or secondary characters. For example, was there a reason why the character of Elizabeth Cutler couldn't have been played by, say, a Swedish actress with a Swedish character name?

Yes. The show was made in USA and it was much easier to audition for an American actress than a Swedish one.

Of course, they could have hired an American actress to play a character with a Swedish name, who may or may not fake a Swedish accent.

Trust me, if they really wanted to get a Swedish actress, they'd be able to. But yes, it is much easier to get an American actor to fake an accent.

With the time contraints of TV production they're going to work with who shows up for the auditions.

 

[Irishman]

The problem with that theory ( IMO) is that you're not always going to have enough immigrants/soldiers/travellers to make a significant impact on every population worldwide. There will still be relativily homogenous populations.

I'm not talking about a contiunation of the soldier model. I'm talking about Star Trek future model, where travel to any point on the globe is as simple as stepping on a transporter pad.

Under that kind of a vision, racial divisions will be erased.

I did include "immigrant".

Assuming that people in significant numbers will want to go to location X and will procreate.

Given enough time, they will.

 

[ALF]

Generally in TV and movies Japanese characters are played by Chinese or Koreans (or of their decent) and I had always wondered why...

The most common answer given was that in Hollywood there wasn't a sufficient talent pool of actors that are specifically Japanese. With the exception of a very small handful of A-listers (Watanabe Ken for example) they end up casting an Asian in the role.

When I taught in Japan and Sayuri (Memoirs of a Geshia) came out, most of my older students unilaterally dismissed the film as most of the actors in it were not Japanese... the Chinese lead they took as a slap in the face.

Of course, most of the younger students didn't care about race issues... so they were more open to the idea of the film: shot in America, set in Japan, acted by an entire Chinese/Korean cast and only two Japanese.

*Shrug* Hollywood thinks that Joe Six Pack can't distinguish. And guess what? He can't.

A lot of other people can't either. My Japanese wife is constantly mistaken for Korean. When we walked down the street in Korea she was questioned constantly until she got into the habit of delcaring (in English), "I'm Japanese!" She always told me, "I have a Korean face" but I didn't really believe her until we spent a week vacationing in Seoul.