Well yeah, I realize that, which is why I prefaced the statement. Still seems to happen in just about every other non-JJ forum though.
why did the V'ger probe take Ilia?
- Thread starter Borjis
- Start date
Sorry, but no. In the TNG universe the first starship to bear the name Enterprise does look like the TOS Enterprise and the Sarek character is still the same actor (Mark Lenard).
And nothing in TNG ever suggested that Captain Kirk was capable driving an automobile prior to "A Piece of the Action".
There are good reasons to distinct between olTrek and nuTrek.
Bob
I'll change my answer above then to remove whatever disruption it has to whatever theory is going on here. Sarek married Amanda because it was the logical thing to do. Well, obviously it couldn't be for love since Vulcans don't have emotions, so maybe she was pregnant. Of course, he didn't feel guilt for that because that's an emotion too.
Wow...I really have to scratch my head at how people (old schoolers) will get their feathers all ruffled if the JJ Abrams Star Trek gets brought up in the I-X forum, and yet, old Trek can be brought up in the JJ forum (usually for the self righteous old school fanatic to cast ill light on the new movies, and expecting anyone who defends/enjoys the JJ 'verse to feel like an idiot for doing so) with no resentment or fan furor whatsoeve from the Abrams crowd.
Fandom....it is not logical. In fact, it is often hypocritical.
Fandom....it is not logical. In fact, it is often hypocritical.
Hey, I'm old school (dating to watching in 1966), and am still trying to find anything I like in ST2009 (up to 2 so far), so watch your careless generalizations there.
Suddenly, I feel like paraphrasing a certain Klingon braggart on Space Station K-7, but I won't to keep the peace, and because I also love the classic Trek.
But, the question still remains: Why is it suddenly wrong to bring up JJ Star Trek in the I-X threads, when old Trek is constantly invoked in the XI-XII threads? ("Because old school Trek is the real-Trek and therefore is not subject to any form of restriction!" is not an acceptable answer, either.)
This question comes from one who loves the old Trek....but also enjoys the new Trek. In fact..one who enjoys Trek in all its forms... From TOS to JJ Star Trek.....and all points in between.
Quite possible...and there is no reason for such brawls. What causes the brawls is the fact that some folks (on either side of the fence) tend to overvalue/gravely mistake their own opinions for immutable fact...and for whatever reason take personal offense over the other side even existing at all. Thankfully, such folk are relatively few and far between...but they're enough to sow discord among otherwise friendly discussion.
If the venerable Dr. Marcus from TOS, is a stripper in ST2009 2, you know that series is really another universe. A small thing like Sarek not just ponfarring SPock into Amanda there shouldnt carry any weight in a discussion about if Saavik is a Vulcan in a thread about why VGer zapped Ilia, or so I think.
So people don't change clothes in the 23rd century? Those must be some funky undies then...
I don't recall noticing any discontinuity but I read TSFS as a kid so who knows? I recall Deltans (and Carol?) at the start of the STIII novelisation though I think.
The scenes on Regula 1, in the TWoK novelisation, particularly the torture of the scientists, including a Deltan woman, were among the most powerful in the novelisation. I was very disappointed that the comic version was so faithful to the movie rather than the novel. Half-Romulan Saavik's friendship with Peter and inability to control her anger made her a very interesting character but I think the Trek actors were over-protective of their own parts in the franchise and it led to the support characters being diluted quite a bit.
I can only speak for myself but I give the XI-XII threads a wide berth, and I recently posted a thread concerning the Prime Directive deliberately in the TOS section (there was already one going on in the geneneral section) because I wanted to discuss the issue entirely from a TOS / TAS point of view and in the original context of that era (which often also applies for other discussions).
I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that events in XI-XII take place in an alternate reality (hence "Abramsverse") and therefore have little or no relevance to the other and older Star Trek Universe, IMHO.
Bob
I can appreciate that view, Bob.
From a rational, non-fan point of view, yes, it is (even as declared in ST209) an alternate reality...and for this series of threads, it is an alternate reality that has not happened yet, at least up until the time after Spock became Ambassador to Romulus.... (and then the trip through the black hole is a massive rewind for Spock and even moreso for Nero because in the time of Kirk...either Kirk, Nero hasn't even been born yet) so, unless talking some form of Next Gen tie-in, it probably is pointless to discuss such an alternate timeline.
But when folk start applying bullshit qualitative issues to it, then it becomes nothing more than basement dweller fanboyism.
From a rational, non-fan point of view, yes, it is (even as declared in ST209) an alternate reality...and for this series of threads, it is an alternate reality that has not happened yet, at least up until the time after Spock became Ambassador to Romulus.... (and then the trip through the black hole is a massive rewind for Spock and even moreso for Nero because in the time of Kirk...either Kirk, Nero hasn't even been born yet) so, unless talking some form of Next Gen tie-in, it probably is pointless to discuss such an alternate timeline.
But when folk start applying bullshit qualitative issues to it, then it becomes nothing more than basement dweller fanboyism.
Actually, the premise of the new movies is that their timeline diverged from the Prime timeline as a result of Nero's arrival in 2233. Spock's birth (in a deleted scene of the movie) took place before that, so what the movie said about Sarek's reason for marrrying Amanda was meant to apply equally to both timelines. The difference is that in this timeline, Sarek lost Amanda and his whole world to an act of profound violence, and that changed him and made him willing to admit the love he never would've admitted to in words otherwise.
Of course Vulcans have emotions -- extremely powerful, overwhelmingly deep ones. They just control them very tightly. We've only been told that about a hundred times onscreen.
Of course Vulcans have emotions -- extremely powerful, overwhelmingly deep ones. They just control them very tightly. We've only been told that about a hundred times onscreen.
btw, I think Sarek's portrayal in ST2009 was one of the worst translations of an element from TOS in that movie.
I am not sure if it's because of the actor or the character's context in the movie
I am not sure if it's because of the actor or the character's context in the movie
Doctorwhovian
Fleet Captain
Sorry if this is brought up before, but in the original script as well as the novel/comic adaptations didn't V'ger also digitize a security guard?
^^ Yes. Two football...pardon...security guards arrived on the Bridge and one was instantly zapped or digitized by the V'ger energy probe (he probably shot at the probe and it neutralized him instantly). There are PR shots of the two guys, and in the film we see the surviving one in the background as the probe roams around the Bridge.
I wonder what happened to the original, deleted footage.
Bob
I wonder what happened to the original, deleted footage.
Bob
Shat, I think many of us can agree that Ben Cross is an excellent actor. It may well have been that the context of Sarek in ST2009 did not agree with you.
As for the security guards in TMP, yes, in the novel (and probably an unshot scene), one guard fires his phaser at the intruder probe...and I think the novel said that the probe just outright killed the guard. As to why the scene didn't make it in the movie, I think it might have been because they didn't really have an agreed upon phaser effect ready. A phaser was also supposed to be fired in the proposed Kirk/Spock spacewalk scene.
Just a thought.
As for the security guards in TMP, yes, in the novel (and probably an unshot scene), one guard fires his phaser at the intruder probe...and I think the novel said that the probe just outright killed the guard. As to why the scene didn't make it in the movie, I think it might have been because they didn't really have an agreed upon phaser effect ready. A phaser was also supposed to be fired in the proposed Kirk/Spock spacewalk scene.
Just a thought.
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