Why did the the Vulcans hate humans so much in Abrams' movie?

[T'Girl]

^ In my attempt to reconcile all things Trek, I came up with the Earth Federation is different than the UFP.

The Earth Federation is a combination of United Eath, all of it present colonies, many former colonies, and several non-human worlds (some not federation members) that have close trading relations with United Earth.

Somewhat like the present British Commonwealth, but interstellar.

United Earth is a UFP Member of course, but not everything the UE does involves the UFP.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

A repeated theme among Vulcans is that they don't hate other races (Except for the evil ones in ENT), but they feel like their own values of intellectualism and emotionlessness are superior values. So it's sort of like smug friendliness.

I think part of the reason Vulcans feel so superior about their values is that they see their own worst qualities in humans. It's like, people who used to be alcoholics and are now sober tend to be harder are people they see drinking alcohol because they notice the things they hate about themselves in them. Vulcans used to be savage and violent, and they got over it by learning to control their emotions, so they're overly harsh in judging emotional behavior they see in other races.

 

[borgboy]

Even Sarek has his racist moments. There's that flashback in STV where Sarek sounds disgusted at baby Spock being "so human". I'm not quite sure what he was referring to. That the baby was crying? It's looks? Spock looks completely Vulcan. Either way, imagine a similar reaction to a father of a mixed race baby sounding disgusted that the child was "so black" or "so Chinese" or whatever.
I think there's racist undertones all thru Sarek's relationship with Spock. All their difficulties seem to stem from the fact that Sarek was trying to squash any traces of human out of Spock. I have no doubt that Sarek deeply loves Amanda, and he does love Spock, but there's still racism/speciesism there when he clearly objects to any sign that Spock isn't the perfect Vulcan and any signs of Spock showing traits of his human mother. I do think that Sarek is unreasonably demanding and controlling and I don't think anyone could satisfy his parental demands.
Perhaps he was harder on Spock because his other son, Sybok was such a maniac.
I can see where humanity would seem out of control and potentially dangerous to themselves and others, especially in the 22nd century.

 

[F. King Daniel]

^I think that scene depicted Spock's deep-seeded fear that his father saw him as human, not that Sarek actually dismissed baby Spock on first sight in such a manner.

I tend to think Sarek was always so adamant for Spock to live "the Vulcan way" because of how Sybok, his first son, turned out.

 

[Greg Cox]

I think part of the reason Vulcans feel so superior about their values is that they see their own worst qualities in humans. It's like, people who used to be alcoholics and are now sober tend to be harder are people they see drinking alcohol because they notice the things they hate about themselves in them. Vulcans used to be savage and violent, and they got over it by learning to control their emotions, so they're overly harsh in judging emotional behavior they see in other races.

That's an interesting way to look at it. Makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[Christopher]

I think part of the reason Vulcans feel so superior about their values is that they see their own worst qualities in humans. It's like, people who used to be alcoholics and are now sober tend to be harder are people they see drinking alcohol because they notice the things they hate about themselves in them. Vulcans used to be savage and violent, and they got over it by learning to control their emotions, so they're overly harsh in judging emotional behavior they see in other races.

From ENT: "The Forge":

SOVAL: We don't know what to do about humans. Of all the species we've made contact with, yours is the only one we can't define. You have the arrogance of Andorians, the stubborn pride of Tellarites. One moment, you're as driven by your emotions as Klingons, and the next, you confound us by suddenly embracing logic.
FORREST :I'm sure those qualities are found in every species.
SOVAL: Not in such confusing abundance.
FORREST: Ambassador. Are Vulcans afraid of humans? Why?
SOVAL; Because there is one species you remind us of.
FORREST: Vulcans.
SOVAL: We had our wars, Admiral, just as humans did. Our planet was devastated, our civilisation nearly destroyed. Logic saved us. But it took almost fifteen hundred years for us to rebuild our world and travel to the stars. You humans did the same in less than a century. There are those on the High Command who wonder what humans would achieve in the century to come, and they don't like the answer.

 

[Edit_XYZ]

A repeated theme among Vulcans is that they don't hate other races (Except for the evil ones in ENT), but they feel like their own values of intellectualism and emotionlessness are superior values. So it's sort of like smug friendliness.

And also, vulcans see themselves as humans' intellectual and physical superiors.
Seeing how, on average:
-a vulcan is 4 times stronger than a human, plus far faster;
-the vulcan IQ was strongly implied to be greater than the human one;
this is not prejudice, but provable - if uncomfortable - fact.

 

[Silvercrest]

And if the Vulcans hated humans so much, why would they ever establish an alliance with them?

"Hate? Ah, yes, one of your earth emotions. That would not be logical behavior for a Vulcan."


Denial isn't just a river in Egypt!

 

[T'Girl]

a vulcan is 4 times stronger than a human, plus far faster

Watching Spock moving across the destroyed colony while under fire, if anything Vulcans are significantly slower than Humans.

the vulcan IQ was strongly implied to be greater than the human one

Yet Kirk can beat Spock at chess.

 

[Edit_XYZ]

a vulcan is 4 times stronger than a human, plus far faster

Watching Spock moving across the destroyed colony while under fire, if anything Vulcans are significantly slower than Humans.

the vulcan IQ was strongly implied to be greater than the human one

Yet Kirk can beat Spock at chess.

My post contained:
"And also, vulcans see themselves as humans' intellectual and physical superiors.
Seeing how, on average:
-a vulcan is 4 times stronger than a human, plus far faster;
-the vulcan IQ was strongly implied to be greater than the human one;
this is not prejudice, but provable - if uncomfortable - fact. "

Also:
Kassidy tells directly about the vulcan physical prowess (which is also confirmed multiple times by other characters, situations, etc).
The IQ part is strongly implicit in series with a vulcan character (for example, Spock is better than Kirk at all science and analysis related tasks - except chess, that is -, despite Kirk being at the human peak). Also, there are dialogues relating to this (starting with 7 of 9 remarking how the vulcan enlarged neocortex produces superior analytical abilities, the borg queen telling about the human below average cranial capacity, etc).

 

[jmampilly]

I posit another idea, that Vulcans might be slightly jealous of humans. Humans, unlike Vulcans, have emotions that can be used and controlled, rather than simply suppressed. Even further, I recall in an ENT episode in which the Earth embassy on Vulcan was bombed that a Vulcan ambassador, Soval, told an Earth Starfleet Admiral that Vulcans were concerned about humans. He remarked about how Vulcans took 1000 years after Surak united them to rebuild and reach the stars, vs. the humans taking only a century. Soval said that the humans showed great, and potentially dangerous potential. He said that humans could very well be capable of much more than Vulcans.

 

[Christopher]

^Didn't I just quote that very exchange?

 

[jmampilly]

^Didn't I just quote that very exchange?

If so, I am very sorry.

...oops!!!

 

[Gov Kodos]

^Didn't I just quote that very exchange?

If so, I am very sorry.

...oops!!!

Nothing to feel sorry for. It's easy to have a thought to post that someone else made. Welcome to the board.

 

[T'Girl]

My post contained ...[snip] ... a vulcan is 4 times stronger than a human, plus far faster

While depicted as stronger, Vulcans on screen do not appear to be faster than Humans. In my example I point out with Spock in Arena, in a situation where logically he should have been moving as fast as he possibly could, he wasn't moving as fast as his Human companions.

Suggesting that perhaps he couldn't

Strength does not automatically equate to speed. In a foot race between a powerful weightlifter and a lean sprinter, the lean sprinter wins.

the vulcan IQ was strongly implied to be greater than the human one

Depends on which Vulcan you're talking about, Vorik on Voyager actually came off as somewhat dim witted.

Neither the fore mention Vorik, nor Tuvok on Voyager were in the sciences, Spock on the other hand was a trained scientist. Vulcans apparently have excellent memories, and are fairly good at analytical thinking. But pure Vulcans are also depicted as lacking in curiosity and creativity.

In a scene cut from ST:TMP, McCoy said "If you achieve perfect logic, Spock, you’ll pay a price. It’s given your planet ten thousand years of peace but no poetry’s been written since then, no music.”

for example, Spock is better than Kirk at all science and analysis related tasks ...

But on more than a few occasions Spock's analysis and conclusions were wrong. In The Paradise Syndrome for example, Spock made quite a number of flawed and ill-considered decisions.

 

[Edit_XYZ]

Frankincense + Myrrh

I already said - twice:
Vulcans are shown, ON AVERAGE, as stronger/faster than humans and having a higher IQ than humans.
Even more, these vulcan attributes were expressly mentioned by characters on the show - straight from the horse's mouth:
http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=8979379&postcount=30

Meaning, vulcans being, on average, stronger/smarter than humans is an empirically proven fact in the trekverse - regardless of how uncomfortable trekverse humans or posters here find this fact.

 

[MacLeod]

I think part of the reason Vulcans feel so superior about their values is that they see their own worst qualities in humans. It's like, people who used to be alcoholics and are now sober tend to be harder are people they see drinking alcohol because they notice the things they hate about themselves in them. Vulcans used to be savage and violent, and they got over it by learning to control their emotions, so they're overly harsh in judging emotional behavior they see in other races.

From ENT: "The Forge":

SOVAL: We don't know what to do about humans. Of all the species we've made contact with, yours is the only one we can't define. You have the arrogance of Andorians, the stubborn pride of Tellarites. One moment, you're as driven by your emotions as Klingons, and the next, you confound us by suddenly embracing logic.
FORREST :I'm sure those qualities are found in every species.
SOVAL: Not in such confusing abundance.
FORREST: Ambassador. Are Vulcans afraid of humans? Why?
SOVAL; Because there is one species you remind us of.
FORREST: Vulcans.
SOVAL: We had our wars, Admiral, just as humans did. Our planet was devastated, our civilisation nearly destroyed. Logic saved us. But it took almost fifteen hundred years for us to rebuild our world and travel to the stars. You humans did the same in less than a century. There are those on the High Command who wonder what humans would achieve in the century to come, and they don't like the answer.

Which has already no doubt been said, could mean that Vulcan's feared humans somewhat.

But no doubt Vulcan's like Human's have a range of behaviours within traits.

 

[E-DUB]

Given that contemporary humans practice racism without any actual justification it is hardly surprising to see it from a species that is actually arguably superior.