Why did Spock die after II? Did Nimoy want to quit the films?

[Mr. Scott]

That's the question.

Why did Spock die after II? Did Nimoy want to quit the films? Did Nimoy tell them no morre for me after "The Wrath of Khan", just to be begged back to the fold?

I think in the 1980's Nimoy wanted (and did) do other things but could not escape being Spock, so he went with the flow and made a lot of money being this one character. They must have given him a raise to do the other four films, the two part TNG episode and then Star Trek 11.

So, what was the story behind killing Spock?

 

[FlapJoy]

That's the question.

Why did Spock die after II? Did Nimoy want to quit the films? Did Nimoy tell them no morre for me after "The Wrath of Khan", just to be begged back to the fold?

I think in the 1980's Nimoy wanted (and did) do other things but could not escape being Spock, so he went with the flow and made a lot of money being this one character. They must have given him a raise to do the other four films, the two part TNG episode and then Star Trek 11.

So, what was the story behind killing Spock?

Yes... Nimoy was done, but they offered to let him direct the 3rd film (of which he was barely in) if he'd come back. The rest is history.

 

[wjaspers]

Yes... Nimoy was done, but they offered to let him direct the 3rd film (of which he was barely in) if he'd come back. The rest is history.

That's the story behind it but I don't believe it. At the end of trekII, when Spock says to Bones "remember", they allready started with trekIII, why else would they put such a scene in trekII instead of just killing him and have it over with?

 

[FlapJoy]

Yes... Nimoy was done, but they offered to let him direct the 3rd film (of which he was barely in) if he'd come back. The rest is history.

That's the story behind it but I don't believe it. At the end of trekII, when Spock says to Bones "remember", they allready started with trekIII, why else would they put such a scene in trekII instead of just killing him and have it over with?

I agree, it did seem suspect... but film makers often leave little things like that in a movie series just in case. Sometimes they go nowhere but still leave open many plot choices. Like Bones could have just channeled Spock every so often in future films. Or putting Spock's essence in a new character or even in Saavik or something. Or it could've been written off as the way Vulcan's say good-bye to a long time friend when they know death is upon them, planting a psychic essence of their true feelings for that person, ect...

And I'm not sure Nimoy was totally certain of his decision to never play Spock again, but wanted a way out if he did decide not to return to the franchise. But I don't think they had already planned Trek 3's plot yet at the time of Trek 2's filming.

 

[Christopher]

That's the story behind it but I don't believe it. At the end of trekII, when Spock says to Bones "remember", they allready started with trekIII, why else would they put such a scene in trekII instead of just killing him and have it over with?

I think the "remember" bit, like the intact torpedo on the surface, was added late in production after test audiences found the original cut of the film too depressing. It was done to inject a ray of hope, even though they didn't have a specific, solid plan yet to bring Spock back. After all, in the final analysis, when you're making a film, you have to make the decisions that are best for that film, regardless of what might or might not happen in a later film. Putting in some hints that Spock might survive in some form in order to make the film less of a downer was an end in itself, regardless of whether it might also serve as an entry point into a sequel.

And yes, by the end of production, by the time they inserted those "ray of hope" bits, Nimoy was beginning to change his mind and consider bringing Spock back. But we're talking about a decision that was made months or years earlier at the start of production, and at that time, Nimoy was indeed tired of being typecast as Spock and wanted to bring that part of his career to a conclusion.

 

[Subcommander R.]

Yes... Nimoy was done, but they offered to let him direct the 3rd film (of which he was barely in) if he'd come back. The rest is history.

That's the story behind it but I don't believe it. At the end of trekII, when Spock says to Bones "remember", they allready started with trekIII, why else would they put such a scene in trekII instead of just killing him and have it over with?

Contingency plan, just in case they could get him back. Or switch actors somehow. Something along those lines.

 

[Harvey]

In the special features on the latest DVD/Blu-Ray (they may have been ported over from an earlier release) both Leonard Nimoy and Harve Bennett indicate that most people felt that Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan would be the final film in the series. As such, giving a popular character a dramatic death wasn't a problem they felt they would have to deal with since they weren't planning further movies.

 

[Therin of Andor]

That's the story behind it but I don't believe it.

Well, you should.

At the end of trekII, when Spock says to Bones "remember", they allready started with trekIII, why else would they put such a scene in trekII instead of just killing him and have it over with?

The point is they had no idea what "Remember" would end up meaning. The first script treatment for ST III, "Return to Genesis" doesn't make use of the "Remember..." mindmeld at all. Instead, Spock's disembodied spirit - looking like a pasty vampire - appears to characters like Uhura, Saavik and McCoy in the mirrors of their cabins. He helps them thwart the Romulan threat.

Fan rumours even postulated that Saavik, who was already destined to take Spock's place because Nimoy wanted done with Spock, might somehow gain access to Spock's experiences and memories.

It was only doubts about how audiences would react to Spock's death that caused them to add the "Remember..." scene to ST II and - against the director's wishes - Spock's coffin softlanding on Genesis. Test audiences complained that ST II was such a "downer", so they needed to provide the audience with hope of a possible future, not even necessarily for ST III's plot, but that a preservation of Spock's essence was possible.

They must have given him a raise to do the other four films

The only way he'd agree to do ST:TMP was if he got a "favoured nations" contract along with Shatner. So when one got a pay rise, or residuals, or likeness approval, the other one did too.

the two part TNG episode and then Star Trek 11.

To afford him for TNG, they stretched his normal TV salary across the budget of two episodes and only required him to work a few seconds for the first half (filmed second). He agreed to do "Unification" mainly as a cross-pollination advertisement for ST VI, for which he was Executive Producer.

 

[Christopher]

Actually what they "gave" Nimoy in exchange for returning in ST III was the chance to direct. Which turned out pretty well in the long run.

Although, as I said, he was starting to change his mind about killing off Spock already. It wasn't just bribery that convinced him to return for the subsequent films. Leonard Nimoy isn't that kind of actor. His choice of whether or not to play a role is based on whether or not he feels there's something worthwhile to explore about the character. He came back to Spock because he decided there was more worth saying about Spock.

 

[Botany Bay]

That's the question.

So, what was the story behind killing Spock?

The previous posts cover it all pretty well, but I will just add that Nimoy's relationship with Roddenberry at this point was poisonous.

They'd clashed heavily towards the end of TOS, then Nimoy had a negative experience with while working with him on one of his unsuccessful 70's pilots, The Questor Tapes. Also there were disputes over merchandising, and Roddenberry's disastrous stint as producer of TMP would have been fresh in his mind.

It would have seemed to Nimoy that Trek's best days were long in the past, so why not get out?

 

[Christopher]

I don't recall that Nimoy was involved with Questor at any point. Could you elaborate?

 

[Therin of Andor]

Actually what they "gave" Nimoy in exchange for returning in ST III was the chance to direct. Which turned out pretty well in the long run.

And while the "favoured nations" contracts were originally designed as a valiant attempt to pacify a disgruntled Nimoy, it worked out extremely well for Shatner - because, after Nimoy directed III and IV, Paramount was contractually obliged to let Shatner direct at least one. (If he'd insisted, he could have directed VI as well.)

 

[Therin of Andor]

I don't recall that Nimoy was involved with Questor at any point. Could you elaborate?

http://www.tvparty.com/70roddenberry3.html

 

[Alrik]

To afford him for TNG, they stretched his normal TV salary across the budget of two episodes and only required him to work a few seconds for the first half (filmed second). He agreed to do "Unification" mainly as a cross-pollination advertisement for ST VI, for which he was Executive Producer.

IIRC, there was one more piece to the deal, and that was that his son, Adam, would be brought in to direct a couple of TNG episodes. He did do Rascals and Timescape.

 

[JarodRussell]

I'm always wondering what Star Trek III might have been like had they not searched for Spock. One thing the movies lacked was durability of changes. Spock died and returned, the Enterprise was blown up and returned, Kirk got a son and then lost it.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I'm always wondering what Star Trek III might have been like had they not searched for Spock. One thing the movies lacked was durability of changes. Spock died and returned, the Enterprise was blown up and returned, Kirk got a son and then lost it.

I think the movie franchise have finally become the string-of-telemovies concept, perhaps even tapping into the old "Phase II" scripts. You'd have - perhaps - the introduction of a new, young captain (who reports to semi-regular guest, Admiral Kirk, especially in "sweeps week"), or a promoted Saaavik. Also on board is the resident civilian scientist, and Saavik's love interest, David Marcus, and regular roles for McCoy, Scott, Sulu, Chekov, Uhura and Rand.

Takei hadn't started lobbying for "Captain Sulu" yet, but maybe they'd have promoted Sulu instead of Saavik? (Takei was "last to sign" for ST II and was miffed his "captain promotion" line was left out in editing.) Without Gene's day-to-day influence, Majel Barrett may well have held out, but if De Kelley had decided he'd step back to semi-retirement, she may have jumped back in.

The existing scripts also had space for a resident female alien (a la Ilia and Troi), so we may have seen the additional casting of an up-and-coming, exotic, young, inexperienced, beautiful model-turned-actress in such a role, maybe as a rival for David's affections?

I was amazed, during the months and months of "It's a Wrap!" eBay auctions, just how many Epsilon Nine, TMP casual uniforms and Federation civilian costumes were on hand, so many of which never even came close to being used in ST:TMP. The wardrobe department had definitely made sure they had lots of backstocked costumes had TMP turned into telemovies. Therefore, I think we'd have seen a lot of use of those stored costumes whenever the Enterprise docked at a UFP facility.

The telemovies idea might have worked very well in the TV ratings, probably faring much better that the original "Phase II" proposal of a regular TV series on the (proposed) new Paramount Network.

 

[Christopher]

Heck, wasn't TWOK originally conceived as a TV movie? That's why they hired a TV producer, Harve Bennett, to make it.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Heck, wasn't TWOK originally conceived as a TV movie? That's why they hired a TV producer, Harve Bennett, to make it.

Yep, for US TV, although they were fairly sure it would be released theatrically (just like "Battlestar Galactica", "Buck Rogers in the 25th Century" and "Mission Galactica: The Cyclon Attack") internationally.

 

[Greg Cox]

As I recall, Nimoy also kind of changed his mind over the course of filming. Originally, he had to intended to make KHAN his swan song, but he had such a good time filming the movie (as opposed, perhaps, to the stress and chaos of filming TMP), that he gradually grew more receptive to the idea of playing Spock some more.

Which is perfectly logical . . . .

 

[mrajan]

Leonard Nimoy who is best known for his role as Spock in Star Trek has announced that he’s retiring from acting. He’s talked about retiring a few times before, but this time I think he’s serious. He admits that, “ Countless times, I thought it was done