Why did Pike promote Kirk...

[Chaos Descending]

The original intentions of the movies stand, they were cadet uniforms.
They were intended to be cadet uniforms.
They were used as cadet uniforms.

Prove it?

Every single person except SFA staff instructors were shown to have worn that red uniform at some point in the film.

The entire crew of the Starship Enterprise in attendance at Kirk's promotion to Captain was wearing a red uniform.

It's just as easy to say that the red uniform was a normal Starfleet issue uniform and only SFA's instructors had a special uniform.

It's not at all credible to me that the entire crew of the Federation's newest ship was composed of cadets.

 

[Merky]

Every single person except SFA staff instructors were shown to have worn that red uniform at some point in the film.

Every single person who was attending the SFA.The movie did not take place OUTSIDE of the SFA. We saw Admirals/Board of Directors in different uniforms. We saw instructors and all other Starfleet personel, not cadets, in the black uniforms/BDUs. So to assume that everyone wears the red uniform is too broad of a reason if the movie did not take place outside of the Academy.

The entire crew of the Starship Enterprise in attendance at Kirk's promotion to Captain was wearing a red uniform.

How can you be sure that it was the Starship Enterprise and not the surviving graduating class? They lost several ships, filled with cadets of their graduating class that had, presumably, died.

It may not be credible to you but it doesn't mean that wasn't their intentions. Like how people don't find Nero's reason of blowing up Vulcan credible enough. Intentions =/= Personal opinion on credibility.

 

[JarodRussell]

The original intentions of the movies stand, they were cadet uniforms.
They were intended to be cadet uniforms.
They were used as cadet uniforms.

Prove it?

 

[Chaos Descending]

^^^ I wouldn't do that to you. I'm sure you're probably a nice person.

 

[Set Harth]

The original intentions of the movies stand, they were cadet uniforms.

You keep making wild speculations instead of accepting the fact that it was the intent.

That sounds familiar, for some reason...

interview not-so-official-cause-it-ain't-in-the-movie

So creator intent stands when it comes to uniforms, but not time travel, eh?

It's not like the movie sat us down and explained it in detail and told us not to use our common sense.

That never stopped you before.

 

[Merky]

Oh. I sense butthurt rolling over from the other thread...

Gene says STV is not canon. Should I take his word for it and write it off as non-canon because he said so?

That never stopped you before.

Oblige me. Thanks for not providing anything worthwhile to the conversation other than to make a personal attack. Stay classy.

 

[M'Sharak]

...

...

That sounds familiar, for some reason...

interview not-so-official-cause-it-ain't-in-the-movie

So creator intent stands when it comes to uniforms, but not time travel, eh?

It's not like the movie sat us down and explained it in detail and told us not to use our common sense.

That never stopped you before.

Oh. I sense butthurt rolling over from the other thread...

Gene says STV is not canon. Should I take his word for it and write it off as non-canon because he said so?

That never stopped you before.

Oblige me. Thanks for not providing anything worthwhile to the conversation other than to make a personal attack. Stay classy.

Let's stick to arguing the topic and steer away from taking swipes at each other, shall we?

 

[Set Harth]

Oh. I sense butthurt

On the contrary, I have no problem at all with the destruction of Vulcan or the summary rejection of untenable time travel theories. I never had anything invested in Vulcan in the first place. Remember, you're promoting a theory that the writers' insistence was only to spare the hurt feelings of those who wouldn't be able to handle the death of Vulcan or the alteration of the timeline.

 

[T'Girl]

I wonder if these cadets are wearing a cadet uniforms, I mean, we don't really know.

Really.

So you're trying to pointing out that only the Starfleet people in the front row are cadets? Seem a little old, but okay.

There's one at every military academy ...
Uhura ... is not on the command track

Since you've brought up real military academies, what the hell is this "command track" of yours?

If you know about the costuming notes for these uniforms, the red strip designates cadet. Valeris lacked this. Saavik was a cadet.

But that still makes the assumption that the red stripe designates a cadet, costuming notes do not equate to canon.

As always, the intent of members of the production crew are irrelevant.

 

[Worf]

ALL OF IT!!!!

 

[F. King Daniel]

Gene says STV is not canon. Should I take his word for it and write it off as non-canon because he said so?

FWIW, Gene conidered a lot more than STV "non canon". He thought Kirk's racism disqualified STVI (his humans are beyond all that), he didn't like the cartoon series, and according to Voyages of Imagination, he considered entirety of TOS apocraphyl (not just season three as many believe) when making early TNG.

Of course, if he or anyone else really wanted episodes "decanonized", they'd have gone the way of The Star Wars Holiday Special. Yet there they all are on the official DVD sets, given equal billing to the episodes and movies that "really happened". The Voyager DVD season featuring "Threshold" even features a hidden apology from Brannon Braga, but nowhere in that apology does he deem the episode unofficial - just "a stinker"


Meanwhile, back on topic...

 

[Merky]

Oh. I sense butthurt

On the contrary, I have no problem at all with the destruction of Vulcan or the summary rejection of untenable time travel theories. I never had anything invested in Vulcan in the first place. Remember, you're promoting a theory that the writers' insistence was only to spare the hurt feelings of those who wouldn't be able to handle the death of Vulcan or the alteration of the timeline.

If you want to argue Vulcan and values and all that jazz, take it back to the Vulcan thread and I'll gladly oblige you again. This is obviously internet butthurt if you're going into another thread to try to make an attack and not provide anything to the conversation.

I don't go into other threads looking for argument for the sake of argument not pertaining to the topic.

I wonder if these cadets are wearing a cadet uniforms, I mean, we don't really know.

Really.

So you're trying to pointing out that only the Starfleet people in the front row are cadets? Seem a little old, but okay.

Are you trolling?

There's one at every military academy ...
Uhura ... is not on the command track

Since you've brought up real military academies, what the hell is this "command track" of yours?

Command track as in -

Kirk -> Studying to be in command of a ship, he is on a command track
Uhura -> Studying to linguistics and thus following an Engineering/Communications track
McCoy -> Medical, obviously

Why would Uhura take the Kobayashi Maru to test her skills as a Captain if she is only going to serve as a communications officer? I don't know, we can debate this for days cause the movie never explicitly explained her intent in Starfleet.

My allusions to military academies was to shed light on the ranking within an academy and uniforms. Obviously SFA has some differences already explained and shown in the movie in terms of academics and field of work.

If you know about the costuming notes for these uniforms, the red strip designates cadet. Valeris lacked this. Saavik was a cadet.

But that still makes the assumption that the red stripe designates a cadet, costuming notes do not equate to canon.

As always, the intent of members of the production crew are irrelevant.

Throwing the "costuming notes" out of the window, common sense would infer that "hay, these kids were called cadets. oh look they're all wearing the same red stripe/collar. that must mean that's their cadet designation! does help that kirk referred to them all as spock's cadets and they were taking a training flight. "

I mean, you guys don't have to use that common sense. Want to declare its Starfleet standard issue and come up with 23523520857235 reasons for as to why even though the movie only takes place at the SFA/Enterprise an no where else, go riiiight ahead.

 

[BillJ]

I mean, you guys don't have to use that common sense. Want to declare its Starfleet standard issue and come up with 23523520857235 reasons for as to why even though the movie only takes place at the SFA/Enterprise an no where else, go riiiight ahead.

I'm still waiting for the explanation why Lieutenant Commander Leonard McCoy, number 2 medical officer of the Starship Enterprise, is wearing a cadet uniform...

Hell... Pike knows McCoy by name.

PIKE: Romulans? Cadet Kirk, I think you've had enough attention for one day. McCoy take him back to medical, we'll have words later.

Pretty impressive he'd know a random cadet called to duty because of an emergency.

 

[Merky]

I mean, you guys don't have to use that common sense. Want to declare its Starfleet standard issue and come up with 23523520857235 reasons for as to why even though the movie only takes place at the SFA/Enterprise an no where else, go riiiight ahead.

I'm still waiting for the explanation why Lieutenant Commander Leonard McCoy, number 2 medical officer of the Starship Enterprise, is wearing a cadet uniform...

Go watch the movie and come up with your own conclusion.

Pretty impressive he'd know a random cadet called to duty because of an emergency.

Geeeeeeeeee, why don't we go back 2 - 3 pages and reread this whole debate over again.

 

[BillJ]

I mean, you guys don't have to use that common sense. Want to declare its Starfleet standard issue and come up with 23523520857235 reasons for as to why even though the movie only takes place at the SFA/Enterprise an no where else, go riiiight ahead.

I'm still waiting for the explanation why Lieutenant Commander Leonard McCoy, number 2 medical officer of the Starship Enterprise, is wearing a cadet uniform...

Go watch the movie and come up with your own conclusion.

Pretty impressive he'd know a random cadet called to duty because of an emergency.

Geeeeeeeeee, why don't we go back 2 - 3 pages and reread this whole debate over again.

Hey... you're the one taking the hardline "it's only a cadet uniform and that's all it can possibly be".

I'm just showing that the evidence isn't as clear cut as you'd like it to be.

 

[Merky]

I'm still waiting for the explanation why Lieutenant Commander Leonard McCoy, number 2 medical officer of the Starship Enterprise, is wearing a cadet uniform...

Go watch the movie and come up with your own conclusion.

Pretty impressive he'd know a random cadet called to duty because of an emergency.

Geeeeeeeeee, why don't we go back 2 - 3 pages and reread this whole debate over again.

Hey... you're the one taking the hardline "it's only a cadet uniform and that's all it can possibly be".

I'm just showing that the evidence isn't as clear cut as you'd like it to be.

Actually, it is. A position =/= commissioned rank. Just because he's a "senior medical officer" doesn't mean that he is a commissioned officer. It's just a position.

And given the little clues presented in the film during the ship assignment scene, it can be inferred that these cadets were soon to be graduating and were receiving their ship assignments a bit early. It's not that of a leap to then infer that had the circumstances not presented itself, had McCoy graduated, he would have received the position as SMO on board the Enterprise. But it does not infer rank.

This is clearly debunked when Kirk assumes the position of " First Officer " and he's currently a cadet on academic probation.

 

[BillJ]

This is clearly debunked when Kirk assumes the position of " First Officer " and he's currently a cadet on academic probation.

So obviously all Starfleet first officer's wear a black undershirt with a white arrowhead... because the only one we see identified in the film is wearing one?

 

[Merky]

This is clearly debunked when Kirk assumes the position of " First Officer " and he's currently a cadet on academic probation.

So obviously all Starfleet first officer's wear a black undershirt with a white arrowhead... because the only one we see identified in the film is wearing one?

Your attempts at trolling fail.

 

[BillJ]

This is clearly debunked when Kirk assumes the position of " First Officer " and he's currently a cadet on academic probation.

So obviously all Starfleet first officer's wear a black undershirt with a white arrowhead... because the only one we see identified in the film is wearing one?

Your attempts at trolling fail.

You call it trolling because you obviously can't answer the question presented.

 

[JarodRussell]

It was a very stupid question and you know that.