>boarding by shuttle
knowing Meyer as we do, probably he would have them swinging from ropes instead
knowing Meyer as we do, probably he would have them swinging from ropes instead
Why did Kirk let Chekov "Man the Weapons Console" in TWOK
- Thread starter enterprisecvn65
- Start date
What did Kirk know about "the magnitude of Genesis", though?
Genesis is this big tube that can cause worlds to turn inside out. But this big tube is aboard the Reliant, and the Reliant isn't going anywhere. Why should Kirk worry about a thing?
It turns out that Genesis can cause devastation even when detonated aboard the crippled starship, but Kirk wouldn't necessarily know that. Yet even if he did, it's not that big a deal, because there is no New York City anywhere to be harmed by the detonation. Khan has been defeated, the threat from him neutralized for good, and there aren't any space jihadists swarming the Mutara in hopes of grabbing Genesis from Khan's cooling hands. All that remains a concern for our heroes is their personal well-being, and that can be secured by warping away. It's too bad that the warp engines aren't in working order, but assault teams in shuttles won't change that fact.
Timo Saloniemi
The nature of the reaction doesn't sound like something that can be stopped easily.
^ If so, why not design a security system more involved than "you have to twist several different doohickeys to make it launch"? Granted, with the Ceti eels, Khan might have been able to get any needed security codes. But, Carol and David were never under Khan's control, and it's doubtful the crew of the reliant would have had such information.
That's just paranoid. The system we saw would be sufficient to prevent accidental or unintended starting of the process. To stop malicious starting, the safest way would be to prevent bad guys from accessing the device in the first place; installing some sort of a super-duper, code-ridden, booby-trapped control device would be overkill and a half-measure at the same time.
Timo Salloniemi
Timo Salloniemi
Did you not see the whole scene where they watched the Genesis tape and Spock and McCoy got into it over how it could be a devestating weapon. So unless Kirk was watching online porn it was pretty impossible for him NOT TO KNOW how dangerous it was. The fact Khan had it and it was not known if he was dead or not was reason to get it back asap. He didn't need to be a space jihadist, he was crazy and obsessed with revenge, seems to me that'd be enough and its a pretty simple leap of logic to make that, if it's set off regardless of where it happens, its going to kill anything in a huge area.
Seriously what do you not understand about the problem of a total madman who has shown no intent of stopping at anything to finish his quest for revenge possessing a weapon of ultimate destruction. This isn't exactly like predicting Hitler would become responsible for WWII when he was on a street corner in 1920 passing out flyers.
Plus if your statement that Kirk didn't really knew the true nature of Genesis destructive force then why, as soon as David said Spock's readings were the Genesis wave and it was building, did Kirk immidiately grab his armrests say "what" and have a look on of fact that totally said "Holy Shit.....we are in big fucking trouble" and tell Scotty they needed Warp speed in 3 minutes or they were all dead. Seems to me that shows a crystal clear understand of how destructive genesis was no matter the circumstances.
If your point is to believed Kirk would have gone "Oh......hmmmm well we don't really know if detonating it aboard a starship will be that bad, so let's weight our options carefully and not overreact."
Since we're kind of on the subject, who else, when first seeing the genesis torpedo, thought of these things?
^never before, but can't unsee now.
The tape suggested one needs to fire the Genesis device into a world to turn it inside out. So Genesis would become totally harmless the moment the Reliant lost her warp drive - it could never reach a world.
Which makes it harmless. After all, there's nobody around in outer space.
It's like saying "Look out, he's got a hand grenade, the pin just possibly may be out!" after sinking an enemy ship and observing a lone enemy in a lifeboat without engine, sail or oars. Let it go boom for all we care; let it sit there for a month or three before it's recovered; let it rust out. It's not gonna endanger anybody, despite being a devastating weapon - simply because it's in the middle of an ocean.
(You can up that ante to a depth charge or a nuclear warhead if you wish, and still nobody will be harmed by the mid-ocean detonation. But the potential of Genesis in relation to the galaxy is better portrayed by a hand grenade vs. the Pacific Ocean. Although even that is giving way too much credit to the range of Genesis.)
Nope. Kirk knows that letting Genesis blow is a harmless way of disposing of it, because no potential victims are anywhere around. Or wouldn't be if the warp drive worked - but unfortunately it doesn't. An operation to recover Genesis makes no sense under any circumstances, as it merely creates a set of victims (the recovery team) where none need exist.
Where's the problem? The man is crippled and cannot escape, regardless of his willpower or whatnot. He doesn't have anybody within lethal range of his weapon (save for the Starfleet team that defeated him - the equivalent of the SWAT team you yourself argued was expendable). He cannot carry his weapon anywhere. The good guys won. He lost.
Timo Saloniemi
Given that we're talking about genetically engineered supermen as well, Kirk may have thought that sending a team to Reliant without due precaution would simply result in a dead team.
I believe Into Darkness effectively portrayed how dangerous a single augment can be...and you want Kirk to send a team to a ship full of them?
I believe Into Darkness effectively portrayed how dangerous a single augment can be...and you want Kirk to send a team to a ship full of them?
Yes, Kirk should be capable of a bit of tactical thinking. Genesis has some destructive potential. Khan has some destructive potential. Both are harmless when bottled up aboard the Reliant - against which Kirk and his own starship have plenty of destructive potential, that is, a total upper hand. Why give up that advantage?
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
``Make it stop? Do you know how hard it is to make this thing get started?''
Less facetiously, it was an experimental prototype. It's miraculous to get that sort of thing working at all; getting it to work well comes later.
Also, how could it be even theoretically possible? You could very well build a sonic avalanche-starting machine (not just criminal masterminds but also people living and working in the mountains would love those) that takes five minutes to go through a complex prelaunch sequence, with an abort option built into every second of that sequence - but once the avalanche starts, how could there be a further abort option there? Genesis is obviously a "chain reaction" type thing (needing a teeny weeny "seed" to convert an entire planet), and those aren't amenable to aborts, regardless of whether we're talking careless prototyping or centuries of responsible use.
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
^ Genesis allowed is not. Is time travel forbidden!
