Why did Kira call Innocent Cardassians who needed to be killed "Collaborators?"

[Charles Phipps]

I wonder why Kira was called, and called herself, a terrorist.

The Cardassian occupation machine was military in nature. An attack on a military installation or force is not terrorism. It is asymmetric warfare.

A better term for Kira and her people was "guerilla".

Because Kira thinks terrorist sounds badass. She's not worried about her perception by the Cardassians.

And doesn't begin caring about what the Federation thinks either until much latter.

What's the end goal of the Bajorans? It's to make Occupation more costly than the resources being extracted. But they don't want the Cardassians taking revenge during the withdrawal, and killing the families of the men in charge is a great way to do just that.

To be fair, a lot of Bajorans don't CARE about the reprisals since they were happening anyway. You're forgetting the allure of revenge without forethought.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Also, don't forget Odo's reputation in the war. He was the one who prevented summary executions and ensured a fair investigation (Except for that one time).

When Kira calls herself a terrorist I think it's her way to making sure she doesn't whitewash her actions in the war. She's aware what she did, she believes the cause justified it, and takes ownership of all her decisions. To her, I think using softer terminology would feel like she was making excuses.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Also, don't forget Odo's reputation in the war. He was the one who prevented summary executions and ensured a fair investigation (Except for that one time).

When Kira calls herself a terrorist I think it's her way to making sure she doesn't whitewash her actions in the war. She's aware what she did, she believes the cause justified it, and takes ownership of all her decisions. To her, I think using softer terminology would feel like she was making excuses.

There's a certain level of "I'm an outlaw!" rebelliousness to Kira as well. She's disdainful of the Bajoran government and one of her character arcs is accepting she's come to work for the establishment.

In D&D terms, she's militantly Chaotic Good.

 

[UssGlenn]

As an aside, I've always found it humorous that it was always "the provisional government" for the entire run of the series. When were they planning on settling on a permanent one?

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I tend to find identifying Kira as a terrorist as very problematic in terms of semantics. There is really only one time that she calls herself a terrorist, when speaking to Riker. Instead, it is others, usually Cardassians, who describe her as a terrorist. From that perspective, it may be a badge of honor. On the other hand, her activities in the Shakar do not clearly rise to the same level of known contemporary terrorist groups. Whereas the Konma willing and directly targeted Bajorans, Kira was involved in raids that targeted Cardassian leadership and organization. And then there is the time when Kira described the people who came to take the Dax's slug "terrorists," which is a complete misnomer. I would say that at best, Kira being a terrorist is only relative and debatable.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Do this though. Describe a terrorist, without using any emotional or value words. Strictly facts, what they are doing and why.

Do they not describe the Bajoran resistance's tactics? Or any number of groups we consider heroic and don't call terrorists for no reason other than we're on their side?

 

[Orphalesion]

As an aside, I've always found it humorous that it was always "the provisional government" for the entire run of the series. When were they planning on settling on a permanent one?

Glancing over the list of "provisional governments" on Wikipedia, it seems that several of them in our own history were around for multiple years, granted it seems mostly 3-4 years, not seven but 8 guess a re-establishing à planet-wide government after fifty years of foreign occupation might be particularly chellenging.

 

[UssGlenn]

Or any number of groups we consider heroic and don't call terrorists for no reason other than we're on their side?

Terrorists are what the big army calls the little army.

 

[Charles Phipps]

I tend to find identifying Kira as a terrorist as very problematic in terms of semantics. There is really only one time that she calls herself a terrorist, when speaking to Riker. Instead, it is others, usually Cardassians, who describe her as a terrorist. From that perspective, it may be a badge of honor. On the other hand, her activities in the Shakar do not clearly rise to the same level of known contemporary terrorist groups. Whereas the Konma willing and directly targeted Bajorans, Kira was involved in raids that targeted Cardassian leadership and organization. And then there is the time when Kira described the people who came to take the Dax's slug "terrorists," which is a complete misnomer. I would say that at best, Kira being a terrorist is only relative and debatable.

I dunno, Kira freely admits that she hit civilian collaboration targets and was not overly worried about collateral damage.

We're uncomfortable with applying the label terrorist to her because it's meant to be the mark of someone irredeemably evil in our society. However, the point of DS9 is the question of what qualifies as terrorism vs. guerilla warfare will be ambiguous in an occupation.

People will do terrible things to stop it.

Mind you, that's in part because people use the term terrorists liberally in RL

.

Glancing over the list of "provisional governments" on Wikipedia, it seems that several of them in our own history were around for multiple years, granted it seems mostly 3-4 years, not seven but 8 guess a re-establishing à planet-wide government after fifty years of foreign occupation might be particularly chellenging.

I think it was no longer the Provisional Government when Shakar became First Minister of Bajor.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I dunno, Kira freely admits that she hit civilian collaboration targets and was not overly worried about collateral damage.

When?

Perhaps I am misremembering, but never does she say that she was involved in an attack that was not primarily targeting Cardassians. And the only time that she only killed Bajorans during an operation was Vaatrik, and his assassination was not part of her mission.

 

[Charles Phipps]

When?

Perhaps I am misremembering, but never does she say that she was involved in an attack that was not primarily targeting Cardassians. And the only time that she only killed Bajorans during an operation was Vaatrik, and his assassination was not part of her mission.

The Darkness and the Light mostly discusses Kira's more morally ambiguous actions.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Recap/StarTrekDeepSpaceNineS05E11TheDarknessAndTheLight

 

[Bad Thoughts]

The Darkness and the Light mostly discusses Kira's more morally ambiguous actions.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Recap/StarTrekDeepSpaceNineS05E11TheDarknessAndTheLight

That episode makes no claims about attacks on collaborators.

 

[Charles Phipps]

That episode makes no claims about attacks on collaborators.

The entire episode is about her blowing up a shirt folder.

SILARAN: No, I wasn't part of your war. I was an innocent. I wasn't even in the military. You know what I did on Bajor? I was a servant. I cleaned uniforms for Gul Pirak.
KIRA: Gul Pirak. Commander of the weapons depot at Hathon.
SILARAN: I'm glad that you remember. Now, do you remember what you did? How you put a plasma charge outside his bedroom window in the middle of the night?
KIRA: I remember he executed fifteen Bajoran farmers because they refused to display the Cardassian banner outside their homes.
SILARAN: Trentin Fala showed you how to circumvent the defence system. Latha Mabrin built the plasma charge. Furel and Lupaza stood guard outside while you crept up to the house.
KIRA: None of us liked killing. We were fighting for our freedom against
SILARAN: You vaporised the entire east wing! Twelve Cardassians were killed, including Gul Pirak's entire family. Twenty three others were crippled. Don't you feel guilty? Don't you feel ashamed of what you did?
KIRA: None of you belonged on Bajor. It wasn't your world. For fifty years you raped our planet and you killed our people. You lived on our land and you took the food out of our mouths, and I don't care whether you held a phaser in your hand or ironed shirts for a living. You were all guilty and you were all legitimate targets!
SILARAN: And that's what makes you a murderer. Indiscriminate killing. No sense of morality. No thought given to the consequences of your actions. That's what makes us different.
KIRA: I was a soldier. You're just a bitter old man out for revenge.

As for non-Cardassians, we can judge how Kira treated them with the fact she planned to murder her own mother for being Gul Dukat's sex slave.

Which is indefensible.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

The entire episode is about her blowing up a shirt folder.

SILARAN: No, I wasn't part of your war. I was an innocent. I wasn't even in the military. You know what I did on Bajor? I was a servant. I cleaned uniforms for Gul Pirak.
KIRA: Gul Pirak. Commander of the weapons depot at Hathon.
SILARAN: I'm glad that you remember. Now, do you remember what you did? How you put a plasma charge outside his bedroom window in the middle of the night?
KIRA: I remember he executed fifteen Bajoran farmers because they refused to display the Cardassian banner outside their homes.
SILARAN: Trentin Fala showed you how to circumvent the defence system. Latha Mabrin built the plasma charge. Furel and Lupaza stood guard outside while you crept up to the house.
KIRA: None of us liked killing. We were fighting for our freedom against
SILARAN: You vaporised the entire east wing! Twelve Cardassians were killed, including Gul Pirak's entire family. Twenty three others were crippled. Don't you feel guilty? Don't you feel ashamed of what you did?
KIRA: None of you belonged on Bajor. It wasn't your world. For fifty years you raped our planet and you killed our people. You lived on our land and you took the food out of our mouths, and I don't care whether you held a phaser in your hand or ironed shirts for a living. You were all guilty and you were all legitimate targets!
SILARAN: And that's what makes you a murderer. Indiscriminate killing. No sense of morality. No thought given to the consequences of your actions. That's what makes us different.
KIRA: I was a soldier. You're just a bitter old man out for revenge.

As for non-Cardassians, we can judge how Kira treated them with the fact she planned to murder her own mother for being Gul Dukat's sex slave.

Which is indefensible.

There is no mention of Bajorans, collaborators or otherwise, in that dialogue.

 

[diankra]

I think I can understand her seeing it that way. As "unfair" as it might be to the average Cardassian just living their average life on Cardassia Prime and having little/no saying in what happens to Bajor (maybe not even having access to what actually happens on Bajor, considering the propaganda machine)
From her perspective all these people stood by and supported a state that murdered her people and strip-mined her world, when they could have risen up, taken up arms like she was forced to do and stopped what was happening.

It's her way of justifying her actions.
In the 70s and 80s the IRA argued that any Briton was a legitimate target, as Britain was a democracy, so any voter (or child of a voter) was a collaborator in the British government's occupation of Northern Ireland.
Now as a Briton who was at risk of IRA bombs (and had a Belfast Catholic girlfriend) I don't agree with that (and nowadays neither do they), but it was their rational basis for their actions.

 

[Tosk]

In regards to all the assumptions as to why Kira would refer to herself as a terrorist, I'd like to point out that she almost never actually does so. Of all the times she has referred to her former occupation (no pun intended) she only uses the word terrorist when she is trying to make a specific point.

The only time I can find her specifically referring to herself as such is in Defiant. "...because the Maquis are terrorists and the only thing terrorists care about is attacking the enemy. I know. I was a terrorist."

She also uses the same argument but without directly calling herself one in Crossfire, "So do I. Shakaar knows better than anyone you can't capitulate to terrorists. He used to be one..."

She doesn't necessarily argue the point if someone else says she was one, but that's not the same thing.

 

[Charles Phipps]

There is no mention of Bajorans, collaborators or otherwise, in that dialogue.

You did read the final line where I pointed out Kira fully intended to murder her own mother for collaboration, right?

This is how the resistance treated them.

 

[Farscape One]

Regarding Kira and her mother...

Meru was a collaborator in Kira's eyes because she was enjoying the company of Dukat. She became a 'comfort woman' (really, sex slave) because she was picked by that douchey Bajoran and didn't really have any other choice but to go along because it got her family more food... and if she refused, something worse can happen to her and her family.

Kira was ready to kill her... until Meru was crying at the video of her husband. Kira felt a momemt of sympathy, and it saved her and Dukat from the bomb. She got back to our time still hating her.

My point is it's one thing to do unsavory things to survive or give your family a better chance of living. But when you start to enjoy what you're doing, THAT is the line that crosses from survival tactic to collaborator. And Meru was with Dukat for YEARS afterward. Plus, she grew up and went a vast majority of her life believing her mother was a more saintly person. When she finds this out, it completely shatters everything she ever knew about her. A revelation like that is bound to cause a more harsh view of the person going forward.

And when she finds out about that one time with Odo... I think she forgives him for two basic reasons. First, as someone else pointed out, he is not Bajoran OR Cardassian. Second, it was one time, and he had a very long history of being a just and impartial investigator. So there is a lot of leeway there.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

You did read the final line where I pointed out Kira fully intended to murder her own mother for collaboration, right?

This is how the resistance treated them.

You mean when she would have killed her WITH Dukat?

And she still didn't kill her.

BTW, if you read the epilogue to the episode, it is heavily implied that she was not willing to kill her mother because she had collaborated, but because Kira felt personally betrayed.

I've always hated collaborators. I mean, what could be worse than betraying your own people? During the occupation, if I ever had doubt about what their fate should be all I would think of my mother, how she gave her life for Bajor. She was a hero, they were traitors. It was that simple. Or so I thought.

 

[Orphalesion]

It's her way of justifying her actions.
In the 70s and 80s the IRA argued that any Briton was a legitimate target, as Britain was a democracy, so any voter (or child of a voter) was a collaborator in the British government's occupation of Northern Ireland.
Now as a Briton who was at risk of IRA bombs (and had a Belfast Catholic girlfriend) I don't agree with that (and nowadays neither do they), but it was their rational basis for their actions.

I know that's why i say that I have no problem believing that she would have participated in a terrorist attack on Cardassian civilians living on Cardassia Prime if the resistance had possessed the resources to attack there.
I would not agree with such an action either, the victims of such an attack would have mostly been average people just trying to live their lives (and also possessing very little power to provoke any changes in Cardassian policy)

I only said I understand why Kira would think/rationalize it that way. Kira is one of my favourite characters in all of Star Trek, but I have no illusions about her past actions, or how hate filled and radicalized she seems to have been during her time in the Resistance. But it's also true that considering what was happening to her world and the sufferign she had been put through all her life, it's easy to understand why she became that way.