why did janeway and tom paris never develop their romance that started in "threshold"?

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

Chakotay/Seven is accepted? Jesus, I've heard the man literally called a child molester for pursuing Seven -- or, more accurately, being amenable to her pursuit of him! To be sure, that has more to do with her relative inexperience than her actual age. Nonetheless, poor example.

Alright, maybe "accepted" is a big word but the age gap between Chakotay and Seven (about 20 years) wasn't the problem. The problem was elsewere (firstly, they had nothing in common; secondly, Chakotay has barely spoken to Seven since her arrival on board; their professional relationship was tensed : distrust of the Chakotay's side and scorn from Seven and sorry, this is not 1 or 2 episode where both were forced to work together and a pseudo-romance experience with a hologram, which could change things).

Back on Janeway/Paris, even if what's happened in Thresold wasn't a great beginning for a possible on/off romance (but no kiss or hug, because Janeway would have stood firm on her principles, in particular the non-fratenrization with a member of her crew, even if feelings would have been well present), it could have been easily corrected afterwards, especially since neither of them was himself/herself at the relevant time. And as always in Voyager, the situation/relationship has returned to normal between them like if nothing happened.
-> what I see is 1) Tom Paris, Krashyk and Jaffen got more than what Chakotay manged to obtain from Janeway! ;-) and 2) even when he was with B'Elena, the special relationship between Paris and Janeway continued, even after she sent him in the brig for 30 days.

 

[Timewalker]

i believe that that episode was a truly beautiful one that showed the beginning of a romantic relationship! they even had salamander babies!

There is nothing "beautiful" about that episode.

You can find some lovely J/P fanfictions (some are very adult but well, the idea is there).

I've read some of those.

But for unlikely Janeway pairings, I'd have to say the oddest one I ever read in a fanfic was Janeway/Ayala.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

But for unlikely Janeway pairings, I'd have to say the oddest one I ever read in a fanfic was Janeway/Ayala.

For me, it was Janeway/Crusher! :-0

 

[Brennyren]

But for unlikely Janeway pairings, I'd have to say the oddest one I ever read in a fanfic was Janeway/Ayala.

I think I read that one!

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

Oh what about Janeway/Torres?! Really odd choice!

 

[Agony_Boothb]

But for unlikely Janeway pairings, I'd have to say the oddest one I ever read in a fanfic was Janeway/Ayala.

I'm fairly certain i read one many years ago that involved Janeway and the prehensile plant she got gifted in survival instinct. I couldn't tell you what happens though as I forgotten, most likely because it was very disturbing

 

[Dashiell Mirai]

Oh what about Janeway/Torres?! Really odd choice!

Odd, but more common than you'd think.

 

[Timewalker]

Yeah, there's a fair number of Janeway/Torres or Janeway/Seven stories around. I find those a bit creepy because throughout the series, Janeway has had a sort of surrogate mother/mentor relationship with each of them.

 

[Brennyren]

Yeah, there's a fair number of Janeway/Torres or Janeway/Seven stories around. I find those a bit creepy because throughout the series, Janeway has had a sort of surrogate mother/mentor relationship with each of them.

Problem is, that save for the Doctor, Chakotay, and Tuvok, she arguably had that sort of relationship with most of the crew. What's a poor Cap'n to do?

Though I may be a bit oversensitive to that sort of comment. I posted a Chakotay/Torres fic once that a reader thought was morally wrong (despite being pretty tame) because she had always seen the two of them as being like brother and sister, and so my fic was sort of incestuous. That was years ago, and to this day I've never figured out what, if anything, I should have responded.

 

[Timewalker]

Problem is, that save for the Doctor, Chakotay, and Tuvok, she arguably had that sort of relationship with most of the crew. What's a poor Cap'n to do?

Though I may be a bit oversensitive to that sort of comment. I posted a Chakotay/Torres fic once that a reader thought was morally wrong (despite being pretty tame) because she had always seen the two of them as being like brother and sister, and so my fic was sort of incestuous. That was years ago, and to this day I've never figured out what, if anything, I should have responded.

Most of the stories I've read have assumed that Chakotay and Torres are platonic friends, and that B'Elanna considers Chakotay to be a sort of surrogate brother. So yeah, I think I'd find it out of character for them to get romantic or physically intimate.

 

[Nyotarules]

Captain Kathryn "Cougar" Janeway has a nice ring to it.

Like Captain 'Sugar Daddy' Picard

 

[Prax]

B'elanna had a fantasy of getting it on with Chakotay

 

[Brennyren]

Most of the stories I've read have assumed that Chakotay and Torres are platonic friends, and that B'Elanna considers Chakotay to be a sort of surrogate brother. So yeah, I think I'd find it out of character for them to get romantic or physically intimate.

Fair enough. I don't know that I disagree; I mainly wrote the pairing because I saw it as an appealing sort of "what-if" -- what if they looked at each other differently? Could they work as a pair? I feel similarly about Janeway/Paris, actually: more like a mentor/student or cool big sis/annoying little brother relationship in canon, but what if they looked at each other differently?

It was the suggestion that C/T was incestuous (yes, that word was in the story review!) that threw me for a loop. I mean, they might be interpreted as being like brother and sister, but they aren't brother and sister!

B'elanna had a fantasy of getting it on with Chakotay

Why, yes. Yes she did.

 

[Timewalker]

Fair enough. I don't know that I disagree; I mainly wrote the pairing because I saw it as an appealing sort of "what-if" -- what if they looked at each other differently? Could they work as a pair? I feel similarly about Janeway/Paris, actually: more like a mentor/student or cool big sis/annoying little brother relationship in canon, but what if they looked at each other differently?

There's nothing wrong with "what-if" stories, as long as they don't cross certain lines. I don't know if you're familiar with the Dune novels by Frank Herbert, but in the third book the main characters are a pair of 9-year-old twins who were born with adult consciousnesses (due in part to a drug their mother took while pregnant). So they had child bodies and adult thought processes, and in the miniseries based on that novel the characters were aged to about mid-teens. So when people started writing fanfic, there was an appalling number of Leto/Ghanima pairings, which are definitely incestuous and completely out of character.

It was the suggestion that C/T was incestuous (yes, that word was in the story review!) that threw me for a loop. I mean, they might be interpreted as being like brother and sister, but they aren't brother and sister!

I think the only actual incestuous relationships that could happen in canon would be if the Delaney sisters paired up, or if Samantha and Naomi paired up.

I would be creeped-out if Seven and Icheb paired up, since she's a surrogate mother figure to him at times.

The most unexpected pairing I've read about is Seven/Samantha Wildman.

 

[Brennyren]

I don't know if you're familiar with the Dune novels by Frank Herbert, but in the third book the main characters are a pair of 9-year-old twins who were born with adult consciousnesses (due in part to a drug their mother took while pregnant). So they had child bodies and adult thought processes, and in the miniseries based on that novel the characters were aged to about mid-teens. So when people started writing fanfic, there was an appalling number of Leto/Ghanima pairings, which are definitely incestuous and completely out of character.

I read the first trilogy a long time ago, but I did not know about those fanfics. Though I've heard of Supernatural fics that pair Sam and Dean; Simon & Simon fics that pair Rick and A.J.; and my personal "favorite": Wizards of Waverly Place fics that pair teenage brother and sister Justin and Alex. It's harder to find fics in that fandom that don't pair the two. It's enough to make you lose faith in humanity.

 

[Timewalker]

I read the first trilogy a long time ago, but I did not know about those fanfics. Though I've heard of Supernatural fics that pair Sam and Dean; Simon & Simon fics that pair Rick and A.J.; and my personal "favorite": Wizards of Waverly Place fics that pair teenage brother and sister Justin and Alex. It's harder to find fics in that fandom that don't pair the two. It's enough to make you lose faith in humanity.

Rick and A.J.? Yikes.

I used to watch Simon and Simon during its original run. I'm not familiar with the other shows you mention.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Like CAptain sugar daddy Picard

And Captain James "Horndog" Kirk

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

Yeah, there's a fair number of Janeway/Torres or Janeway/Seven stories around. I find those a bit creepy because throughout the series, Janeway has had a sort of surrogate mother/mentor relationship with each of them.

Don't get me wrong, this is not the fact that Seven can be interested in women that causes me a discomfort. On the contrary (and this despite a conservative Catholic education I will never deny)!
Indeed, 1) I remember that Seven was supposed to be a lesbian, according to Bryan Fuller, idea for which Braga wasn't fundamentally opposed contrary to Berman and the studio.
2) curious to develop her humanity in order to better understand her surrounding, Seven could seek to experience romantic feelings with women and men -> to see her making experience with a holo-Janeway before or after to have tested a holo-Chakotay, would be in fact, almost logical, normal.
3) it is known that young people use to feel some interest, romantically included, in their mentor, chief ..., at least in respect of a person who cares for them and show them attention so, there would be nothing shocking to see Seven or B'Elena Torres developping first, an interest/attraction towards Janeway, .

And ‎from my point of view, Janeway/Seven would be more understandable than Janeway/Torres -> the fact that Janeway ‎paid special attention towards Seven, since the young Borg landed on the ship in s4 ; the time both spent together afterwards, in Captain's private quarters, to discussion about a lot of things ; even if Seven became by the force of events, a crew member, she always acted in an independent manner and Janeway always treated her differently from the rest of her crew, even including Chakotay AND to end, the way both actresses (Mulgrew and Ryan) performed their scenes (between tension and open flirting)... even if it was unconscious (although I read some articles where authors let suggested that actresses acted in a knowingly way even if when the latter were questionned, they tended to deny, adding they just obeyed to the director's request).
As I wrote once or 2, the special relationship between J/7 could be interpreted in two different ways : the classical surrogate mother/mentor relationship, shared by most people OR the slowly evolution from a mother/mentor relationship to the possibility that both can feel some romantic feelings towards each other -> I began with the first impression (mother/mentor relationship) but after to have read some J/7 fanfictions and a ‎revisionnage of s4-5-6, I had to recognize that some signals were well present to let me think that the 2nd scenariothink to an evolution of their feelings to romantic ones. And knowing that the finale was skipped with regard to Chakotay/7 (which convinced only a few) and a single Janeway, everything still remained possible in an ‎improbable reboot/sequel.

About Janeway/Torres, well, I have more problem to imagine these both as a couple. The surrogate mother/mentor relationship was too much so strong. That being said, this didn't prevent Torres to betray Janeway's trust like in "The Voyager's Conspiracy" where she opposed a futile resistance to Chakotay's order not to obey Janeway's request.

To end, I'd say that the only possible romantic relationships I can consider, according to what I saw, are J/P, J/7. :-)

 

[Qonundrum]

LOL!

We're just lucky the salamanders aren't picky. Or that one accepted the other's advances.

I seem to recall Janeway and Chakotay on the verge of getting into the same bathtub, lol.
But seriously, I think it would have been a GREAT episode for Voyage to come across Janeway and Paris' great, great, great lizard-grandchildren who had somehow evolved into intelligent lizards who were capable of communication and exhibited some traits of their great, great, great grandparents. That would be a fun one to write!

I like to think they did. I'd like to think it was originally a script for "V" that was dug up and re-purposed, but then "Voyager" ended its run so it couldn't get made...

 

[Terok Nor]

Paneway likely continued post series. I imagine Janeway pulled some strings and had B'Elanna imprisoned for her Maquis crimes once Voyager got back to Earth. Then she and Tom could finally be rogether again like the slippery salamandering adulterers they probably were during Voyager's later seasons.