Why did Doohan hate Shatner?

[Sector 7]

I disagree. Shatner is the King. Of course it's cornball to some degree...everyone knows it...even the Shat does. And, like him and fans of his performances, I embrace the cheese, and have even learned to LOVE it.
I posted this youtube link in another thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWWJuuF_mM0

Classic Shatner...to me...that's awesome.

Anyway...I have no idea what he's like personally other than how he has portrayed himself as in various media (in which he seems like, at least at present, a pretty nice dude), so I can't say that he's a wonderful all-around guy. Sound like he's certainly stepped on some toes in his professional life.
But performances like the one above...Trek would not have been as cool as it was without those moments IMO.

-Rabittooth

If you honestly like the corn, then there isn't anything for it. I don't like it, and I honestly couldn't care less about Shatner being Kirk or someone else playing the character.

Apparently when ST5 was filming, Wil was brought down from the TNG set to the ST5 shuttlebay set by someone who worked at both shoots and introduced them, and to make a long story short, The Shat was a prick to him, so much so that GR made him apologize to the kid.

wow really? Any details on that?

Ask and you shall receive.

Thanks for the link. With all the vocal ShatHeads in here, I thought I was the only one who felt that way about ShatHead a.k.a. Shitner.
ps.-you wouldn't happen to have a link for part 2 would you?

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

what's interesting (and our luck) is that the scenes these two were in ALWAYS shone. that's a blessing for us all.

Absolutely true. from their on-screen performances you'd never know there was any friction between the two of them personally.

 

[Phillip Culley]

Just did a hunt for Part 2 myself, and it's here

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

ps.-you wouldn't happen to have a link for part 2 would you?

http://suicidegirls.com/news/geek/20634/

Edit: oops! Phillip beat me to it

 

[Sector 7]

^
^^
Thanks to both of you. Wil always was a kool dude. I wish that ST:SA had gone forward. Glad to see he's done alright since then.

 

[DevilintheDark]

I disagree. Shatner is the King. Of course it's cornball to some degree...everyone knows it...even the Shat does. And, like him and fans of his performances, I embrace the cheese, and have even learned to LOVE it.
I posted this youtube link in another thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWWJuuF_mM0

Classic Shatner...to me...that's awesome.

Anyway...I have no idea what he's like personally other than how he has portrayed himself as in various media (in which he seems like, at least at present, a pretty nice dude), so I can't say that he's a wonderful all-around guy. Sound like he's certainly stepped on some toes in his professional life.
But performances like the one above...Trek would not have been as cool as it was without those moments IMO.

-Rabittooth

If you honestly like the corn, then there isn't anything for it. I don't like it, and I honestly couldn't care less about Shatner being Kirk or someone else playing the character.

Apparently when ST5 was filming, Wil was brought down from the TNG set to the ST5 shuttlebay set by someone who worked at both shoots and introduced them, and to make a long story short, The Shat was a prick to him, so much so that GR made him apologize to the kid.

wow really? Any details on that?

Ask and you shall receive.

If you dont like the "corn" why the hell watch TOS....its corny as hell and that is what makes it great.TNG is basically a soap opera, the others....i dont even know really.Shatner makes TOS what it is, besides Nimoy and Shatner you could replace anyone else on the show and its would still be great.Get rid of Shat and its a whole 'nother show...the pilot did have sort of an Irwin Allen feel to it.....

 

[Captain X]

Uh, I don't really watch TOS all that much, other than some of the episodes I've seen reruns of. Fro mwhat I've seen, it's better than VOY, but the corn factor still places it as second-lowest on my list. My main turn-offs for TNG are the arrogant attitudes and blandness of the vast majority of the characters, but that's a topic for another thread.

 

[Good Will Riker]

Just did a hunt for Part 2 myself, and it's here

True, Shatner was acting like a douche and was quite full of himself.

But, then again, we all have an aspect of ourselves that -- publicly -- would not be all that endearing.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Shatner, for his part, can be a jerk. But it's not personal. The man had a family to feed, so yeah, he had to promote himself to get ahead, and didn't care whose feelings he hurt in the process. It wasn't until the 90s that Shatner realized how people reacted to that, so he learned to temper it.

I'm no great defender of Shatner, but something about his life came to light not long ago that I never knew:

Within a very short time of Trek ending back in the 60s, Shatner was LITERALLY reduced to living out of his car for a time. That can have an effect on a person.

Also, it's my understanding that Shatner and Doohan came to at least a partial understanding with each other not long before Doohan died, so can't we let this go?

 

[misskim86]

omg thanks for those links guys!!!

Man I felt so bad for Will reading that stuff, I loved how nice Jonathan, Brent, Michael and Gene were to him though, they were so sweet.

You must be very young?

I'm not *that* young I'm 21

 

[HobartFloyt]

I'm no defender of Shatner, but I think it's obvious that he thought he was playing around a bit with Wil. What Shatner apparently didn't know, and wouldn't being Shatner, is that it doesn't take much to hurt a kid and Wil was one of those too-sensitive types on top of that.

Doesn't excuse being an insensitive jerk, which is everyones main beef, but I don't think he meant to hurt Wil.

 

[voggmo]

OK, I'm gonna try & be careful how I say this. It's well known what Doohan was unhappy about, the same thing Uhura & Takei were. However, different people react differently to the same event or topic, & I would imagine he was a bit more vocal & "out" so to speak in that place & time than say Uhura would have been. Some people vent their emotions, some people hide em & so on.

Doohan was not a shy man. No I didn't know him personally, hence my disclaimer above, but still we all have different emotional construct is the point I'm trying to make without stepping on toes & such. Doohan went to more conventions than anyone did, & he is the guy I would have liked to meet more than any other.

 

[Sarah James]

Speculation is just fine

I agree, speculation is fine. How dare we let FACTS get in the way of speculation.
I HAVE met and worked with Shatner. Anyone who has KNOWS why so many people hate him, but I won't bore you again. See my post elsewhere.
On the other hand, Jimmy Doohan was one of the kindest folks I ever met who was connected to Hollywood. He did more charity work than any other cast member, to my knowledge. He was the kind of person who would give you the shirt off his back.
Knowing this, it is easy to see why such opposites would not get along.

Hmmmm...a really good person would forgive and forget. Perhaps Doohan did all those things for the attention and adulation. A real class act would never speak ill of anyone, even someone they disliked.

And a REAL human being would always speak the truth as he sees it. Or not? Or do we all stop being human and try to become flawless now? OK You may start trying. Good luck

 

[Sarah James]

With each point you listed you couldn't be further away from the truth.

1) Doohan wasn't jealous of Shatner. On the set and at the parties he would avoid the man because he thought Bill was racist, sexist and intolerant.

2) Bill never suggested Jimmy for the part. Bill only suggested that Star Trek could do without an engineer (Doohan) which Jimmy never forgave him.

3) Doohan and Grace Lee Whitney were always best of friends (at one time more than that) right until his death. He was never known to force issues with women. Jimmy worshipped women. All women. But one of the NBC executives working for Star Trek was renowned for being a pest and forcing himself on femal staff. And this person who shall not be named raped Grace, harrassed Nichelle and attacked Takei on several occasions. The person to stand up to him was not Bill Shatner. It was Doohan who got severely reprimanded by a bunch of hypocrites, for being a caring, courageous friend at all times.

That, my friend, is the truth as I know it, right out of the mouth of somebody who is not here to defend himself. So I have to do it for him.

That's super interesting stuff thanks a lot Sarah, do you know know why he thought Bill was racist and intolerant?

Because Bill would bluntly hit on women (ask Nichelle Nichols) thinking they must appreciate his attention as a special honour anyway. He was known to accept a No though and then it was all forgotten. Still, he could be rude in his approach (ask Diana Muldaur).

...and he would make the most insensitive jokes about people of other minorities and get away with it! But of course. It was the 60s and the NBC suits (execs) were the worst racists and chauvinists ever. So he had a grateful audience at parties. Jimmy, on the other hand, decided to cut himself off from that group because amongst his friends there were many black people, Asians, native Americans and homosexuals.

Did you know that Jimmy Doohan loved to attend Jazz cubs? In the offices they made fun of him. Because he would hang out with n...ers. Yup the truth hurts sometimes but that was the situation in the 60s when Martin Luther King was not yet shot dead and still fighting.

 

[Sarah James]

As far as William Shatner is concerned, I have to rely on what his former co-workers are willing to tell us about him. And often it is more what is not said then what is said that is so intriguing.

However, if you want to check out a good reference on James Doohan with fun anecdotes and great pictures then I can recommend these links. They are both people, very close to him and one of them is Doohan's own flesh and blood so... they should make good sources.

1) http://www.myspace.com/chrisdoohan

2) http://www.myspace.com/doohansdemon

Let me know what you think

 

[The Squire of Gothos]

Ok some of that stuff is interesting but doesn't really explain why Doohan hated him so much more than the others did

Nazis didn't take his finger, Shatner bit it off and devoured it in a fit of rage off camera.

 

[Rabittooth]

I'm no defender of Shatner, but I think it's obvious that he thought he was playing around a bit with Wil. What Shatner apparently didn't know, and wouldn't being Shatner, is that it doesn't take much to hurt a kid and Wil was one of those too-sensitive types on top of that.

Doesn't excuse being an insensitive jerk, which is everyones main beef, but I don't think he meant to hurt Wil.

I was actually thinking this too. Even at 16, if I was in Wil's place, I don't think I would have been as hurt...probably not hurt at all. I think Wil was probably just a sweeter, more vulnerable kid.
I grew up in NY and would probably have gotten a big kick out of Shatner breaking my balls like that and would have continued to talk to him and try to bring him around. Even if he didn't come around...I can still more fully understand that kind of attitude and recognize it for what it is...a minor form of grandstanding and ball-breaking. I think the Shat probably legitimately regretted hurting Wil, because, as was stated above...he didn't really mean to hurt him. I betcha Gene didn't tell him to apologize, probably just told him how bad Wil took it.
That said...there obviously was and still is alot of arrogance there (with the Shat), it's just a question of whether or not you can overlook certain degrees of arrogance and eccentricity in a celeb based on how cool they are in other ways. Jack Nicholson...the coolest man alive...can reportedly be real jerk sometimes, but everyone loves it. He's Jack.

-Rabittooth

 

[CorporalClegg]

(ask Diana Muldaur).

Yeah. I wonder what she had to say during the WW thing.

 

[HobartFloyt]

I think the Shat probably legitimately regretted hurting Wil, because, as was stated above...he didn't really mean to hurt him. I betcha Gene didn't tell him to apologize, probably just told him how bad Wil took it.

I don't know that I'd go that far. Knowing the type, and having been an unintentionally insensitive jerk a time or two, I think it more likely that Shatner just would not have understood how Wil took offense at his (lame attempt at) humor. The problem and the correction probably had to be explained to him in detail. Even then he probably wouldn't have totally understood the need to do so, perhaps not for many years, because a person like Wil would be as alien to him as IRL green women.

 

[Mr. Fergy]

I don't believe he turned down the Futurama part. He suffered from Parkinson's disease which made him speak slower so it would be difficult to do the voice.

Agreed. He loved the fans , but he was basically incommunicado toward the end.