Why did Decker have to be demoted to commander in TMP?
- Thread starter enterprisecvn65
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I don't remember if this was from the TMP novelization or elsewhere, but supposedly the reason we see Kirk in captain's braids for most of the film is to mislead the intruder so they don't realize they have a flag officer on their hands. I guess that's a more or less reasonable explanation, but it would have cleared up a lot if they had just said so.
But doesn't McCoy call him Admiral after the wormhole scene when he says how he was scared of his wits?
...And if they did, what difference would it make? This particular intruder has shown no predisposition towards taking prisoners and asking for ransom or torturing them for information. And at that time and age, it sounds unlikely that Starfleet would pay higher ransom for a person of higher rank.
And torturing Kirk would reveal what Kirk knows anyway, regardless of what braid he wears - he's still the top officer in terms of clothing, and would get top treatment from the torturer. (His being the top officer would be evident even if he dressed up as the chef - he just couldn't help being commanding. Or if he could, one of his underlings would give away the game when tortured anyway.)
Timo Saloniemi
It's interesting how they switched up Decker's character when they changed it from a TV pilot to a movie.
In the Phase II draft of the script, the Enterprise's captain is Chen, but he (or she?) is said to still be on assignment away from Earth, which is why they are not available to command the ship yet when Starfleet orders her out of spacedock for this emergency situation. The next available captain isn't experienced enough, which is why Nogura insists that Kirk take personal command (over Kirk's own reservations). Decker is actually awaiting promotion to captain of his own vessel, but is not specifically assigned to Enterprise at the outset -- he's drafted in as a replacement for first officer Sonak. His resentment at Kirk is therefore not over Kirk taking Enterprise from him, but more than he's being held down from his own command elsewhere because the Enterprise needs an experienced crew pronto. So in this version Decker was not, technically, yet a captain when he got reassigned to Enterprise.
While making Decker the captain-in-waiting of the Enterprise in the finished movie is a cleaner way of dealing with the succession, in a sense, it does also lead to the unique problem that we see Decker acknowledged as a captain in his first scene, complete with the correct rank braids, but then he gets 'bumped down' to commander.
In the Phase II draft of the script, the Enterprise's captain is Chen, but he (or she?) is said to still be on assignment away from Earth, which is why they are not available to command the ship yet when Starfleet orders her out of spacedock for this emergency situation. The next available captain isn't experienced enough, which is why Nogura insists that Kirk take personal command (over Kirk's own reservations). Decker is actually awaiting promotion to captain of his own vessel, but is not specifically assigned to Enterprise at the outset -- he's drafted in as a replacement for first officer Sonak. His resentment at Kirk is therefore not over Kirk taking Enterprise from him, but more than he's being held down from his own command elsewhere because the Enterprise needs an experienced crew pronto. So in this version Decker was not, technically, yet a captain when he got reassigned to Enterprise.
While making Decker the captain-in-waiting of the Enterprise in the finished movie is a cleaner way of dealing with the succession, in a sense, it does also lead to the unique problem that we see Decker acknowledged as a captain in his first scene, complete with the correct rank braids, but then he gets 'bumped down' to commander.
I guess some people need every little detail show in some scenes.
It'd be like if they went back and did a special edition of TWOK and instead of Khan asking "Where may I find James Kirk" on Ceti Alpha V and then the next shot of him later is on the bridge of the Reliant with people all going "Hey wait a minute....a few minutes ago he was on Ceti Alpha V and now he's on the Reliant in command of the ship? How did that happen...I mean we never actually saw him return to the ship and take it over so what happened? How did he learn to operate it? What happened to the crew?
So they go back and film a sequence of Terrell calling the ship and telling they are beaming survivors aboard and then Terrell and Chekov take them to the weapons storage (since he's the captain he can do that pretty easily) they arm themselves and overpower the crew, maybe spend a few hours with the more important members of the crew learning basic functions so they can control the ship and then beam them down to Ceti Alpha V 6 at a time and then have them all return to the bridge where Terrell and Chekov finish up showing Khan how the controls work and then Khan reveals his plan......Then we can all go "Oh....I get how it all happened now, thanks for clearing it up because it wouldn't be prudent to just assume all of this happened, it was necessary to use up 30 minutes of film time to conclusively prove it.
SW fans bitch about the Greedo shooting first scene, the added Jabba scene, adding in young Anakin's spirit at the end of Jedi......but the Bespin additions were to me the most personally offensive.
First it took away one of Vader's best lines ever. In the original after the Falcon had done it's 180 flip to go back for Luke there's a quick shot of Vader walking briskly saying "Bring my shuttle" with a quick snippet of the Imperial March playing. The line was said in an awesome menacing tone that in three words conveyed how upset Vader was and if his flunkies didn't get his shuttle over to where he was NOW and then didn't break the all time speed record for getting a shuttle from a planet to an orbiting Star Destroyer people were going to start dying while gasping out their apologies. Then they cut back to the Falcon approaching Cloud City.
In the SE version it's the same shot only Vader says "alert my star destroyer to prepare for my arrival" in a rather benign tone, and then a shot is added in of him walking to his shuttle so we understand he's actually getting on. They also hack out the music and just replay the section from when Vader reveals he's Luke's father. So Vader has just lost his son after revealing the shocking truth and he's concerned about making sure the star destroyer knows he's coming and he's rather blasé about it. Wouldn't Vader's team pretty much know to alert it on their own?
Then the whole scene of rescuing Luke where the tension is building, the music is pumping is interrupted twice once with a shot of the shuttle flying away from Bespin and then right in the middle of the Tie Fighters pursuing the Falcon, with another shot of Vader getting off the shuttle......which to add insult to injury is the opening scene of him arriving at the Death Star in ROTJ from an unused camera angle. You can even see the exact same officer greeting him! Man I'm stunned Lucas didn't throw in a shot of Vader and a couple of stormtroopers standing quietly in an elevator with musak playing for 30 seconds so he knew we knew how Vader got to the bridge.
Both times the tension of the Falcon's rescue and escape is cut off right in the middle and the music is altered and it makes the whole sequence very uneven and hacks a great part to bits.
But at least we're shown beyond any doubt how Vader made it to his SD so we don't have to waste any more brain power drawing conclusions.
Well done.
Gene Roddenberry once said:
"We did not accept the myth that the television audience has an infantile mind. And we still believe that! As a matter of fact, we decided to rest the whole show on that premise."
unfortunately, George Lucas felt that his audience has absolutely no mind, what.....so.....ever!
"We did not accept the myth that the television audience has an infantile mind. And we still believe that! As a matter of fact, we decided to rest the whole show on that premise."
unfortunately, George Lucas felt that his audience has absolutely no mind, what.....so.....ever!
Starborn Dragon
Captain
Personally I believe it was professional and very petty jealousy on Kirk's part because he wanted the Enterprise so bad, he had absolutely no room for any sort of competition.
Remember, the real love and obsession of Kirk's life was the Enterprise. That's what he wanted the most, and he would have done anything he could to keep her.
Remember, the real love and obsession of Kirk's life was the Enterprise. That's what he wanted the most, and he would have done anything he could to keep her.
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