Poll Why did Data fire?

[Ghrakh]

- The Jovis is a privately owned vessel and thus is outside Starfleet jurisdiction.

Well then, Data should know that, so if his actions were justified on those grounds there's no reason to lie about it?

For example in"Clues" there was a serious issue with Data not being truthful. And with having a perfect memory there shouldn't be any ambiguity in his recollection of actions or events. Either he fired or he didn't. IMO it's something that should have been handled better in the episode.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It's as I said before. Did Data specifically say he did not fire? No, he did not. Therefore, logically speaking, Data never lied. It's as simple as that.

A lie is when you say something you know is false, and Data did no such thing. Being evasive is NOT a lie.

"Perhaps something occurred during transport." Yes, that IS true - something DID occur. If Riker had flat-out asked Data if he fired, Data would have replied truthfully. But Riker didn't ask that. And I think Riker knew, deep down, what happened anyway. So what's the point of Data forcing the issue?

As for "Clues," that can be easily explained because Data was following orders in that episode. Data's evasiveness, in that instance, was due to a direct order from Picard. Therefore Data had no choice but to handle that situation the way he did,

 

[Mudd]

A lie is when you knowingly conceal the truth in response to a direct question.

A lot of folks rationalize that they "didn't lie" so that they can get away with all kinds of shit. They're so often shocked when spouses, employers, the courts etc find their definition of "lying" a little too...convenient.

Data lied.

 

[NigellaDeanna20]

I think he did it for logical reasons. Fajo was unstable and a lunatic, and he flat-out said he was going to kill someone else. Data could not let someone like that run loose.[/QUOTE

Just watched that scene back on youtube. Data doesn't actually fire. that discharge is actually more than likely some kind of residue from when Fajo killed Varria which is probably the reason why he says "perhaps something occurred during transport, Commander" to Riker. Fajo is an idiot anyway, just like a selfish, unruly kid and IMHO he got what he deserved at the end of the episode when he was caught and imprisoned by the Enterprise.

 

[topcat]

Data was protecting himelf and others. Big deal. He simply did to the bad guy what the bad guy did to others.

 

[Evileer]

I loved Kivas Fajo as a villain - he was one character who was so venal, so thoroughly despicable on a personal level he drove Data to (almost) kill him.

 

[TardisTrek]

I loved Kivas Fajo as a villain - he was one character who was so venal, so thoroughly despicable on a personal level he drove Data to (almost) kill him.

So you think Data killed him out of hatred/vengeance?

 

[locutus101]

So you think Data killed him out of hatred/vengeance?

No way! Data only tried to kill him after Fajo defined himself as a permanent threat to an indeterminate number of people. It was the only way to stop him, the only logical way.

It's almost as if Fajo had said "I am going to kill people one by one until something prevents me from doing so."

 

[USS KG5]

Do you think he evolved to feel rage over Varria's death or Fajo's taunting? That seems to me the only reason why he would lie about pulling the trigger afterwards. Unless that line about something happening in the transporter was simply a device for "the powers-that-be" to keep his firing "ambiguous," as the writer said.

I don't think Data was angry. I think he made the same choice I'd have made.

Data had no way of knowing he was about to be rescued, he had briefly got the upper hand and he didn't necessarily know if he would keep it, and he knew Fajo was a brutal thief, thug and murderer. If Starfleet were pursuing a murderer and left with the choice of killing them with a salvo of torpedoes or letting them get away, they'd fire the torpedoes. It would be their last choice (as it should be) but it has to be available as the last choice for a relatively senior pseudo-military officer like Data.

No-one burst into tears when the Ent-D blew up the criminal's ship in Unification Pt2, sure it was an accident but they fired on a Galaxy class starship and they hadn't plugged their circuit breakers in... Darwin award?

IRL - I know on some level it isn't very Starfleet of me but I don't feel much of anything except satisfaction when I hear of RAF Typhoons and Tormadoes taking out IS militants. Sometimes, you have to kill the bad guys or they will go on being bad.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Besides, look at the expression on Data's face after he begins to fire (and as he's being beamed away). That doesn't look angry, does it?

 

[Paradise City]

It's a sublime episode where the joy is in the ambiguity of it. It's written in a deliberate and appropriate way. I think people who say that Data is simply moving within the boundaries of the software that is written for him and closing the case file at that, are depriving themselves of the real interest that takes place here. Data is taunted in a very personal struggle of will that culminates in a split second spark of anger, a flash of transcendence that confounds his programming. But it's an unsettling experience and instead of assessing and articulating that experience, he sublimates it in an act of self denial. He buries it, preferring to take refuge in the certitude of being an android without emotions. This is one of the few TNG episodes that really punches above its weight.

 

[somebuddyX]

I think it was simply Data's programming that wanted him to stop some guy who was going to kill again but I also feel that Data's Starfleet training should have prepared him for something like this, at least in regards to non-lethal takedown methods. I feel like Data and also The Doctor's ability to process calculations really depends on the episode and perhaps in this episode he could only come up with that single solution and that's why he almost had his Justice Lords moment.

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[Sisko_is_my_captain]

I think we really have to go back to Dr. Soong's personality and consider that a man as subtle as he clearly was, and who was more than a little bit of a maverick, might have included a little conditional flexibility into Data's core moral subroutines without making it obvious to Data or others.

Besides that, I think (as an author pointed out once) Data clearly had emotions pre-emotion chip - they might not have been human emotions, but he was not emotionless, despite what everyone would have you believe.

 

[locutus101]

I think we really have to go back to Dr. Soong's personality and consider that a man as subtle as he clearly was, and who was more than a little bit of a maverick, might have included a little conditional flexibility into Data's core moral subroutines without making it obvious to Data or others.

If Data's actions can be explained as a logical consequence of what he was witnessing then why would you try something else, something irrational and improbable to justify them?

 

[UnknownSample]

It's a sublime episode where the joy is in the ambiguity of it. It's written in a deliberate and appropriate way. I think people who say that Data is simply moving within the boundaries of the software that is written for him and closing the case file at that, are depriving themselves of the real interest that takes place here. Data is taunted in a very personal struggle of will that culminates in a split second spark of anger, a flash of transcendence that confounds his programming. But it's an unsettling experience and instead of assessing and articulating that experience, he sublimates it in an act of self denial. He buries it, preferring to take refuge in the certitude of being an android without emotions. This is one of the few TNG episodes that really punches above its weight.

That is exactly what I was trying to say, only said better. Well done.

A lie is when you come out, point blank, and state something you know to be false.

Riker has a right to know if Data fired, and Data is not out of line in not telling him.

 

[xanne]

I really dislike the ending; Data could've stunned Fajo in a hand to hand combat, take over his ship or try to scape with the shuttle pot. There were so many ways to end this very episode but they just ruined it. That's why I'm not going to stand for any of the options of the poll (I think it's a waste of time and effort).
If you kill Fajo because he's been cruel and immoral, you'll become as cruel as him by killing him; besides it's so hypocritical to say that killing is wrong, but at the same time we make it so by putting criminals to death.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Fajo had a protective force field in place at all times, so Data could not get close to him. The disruptor beam could pierce the shield, though.

And Fajo's crew would have blocked any attempt by Data to take over the ship.

If you kill Fajo because he's been cruel and immoral, you'll become as cruel as him by killing him; besides it's so hypocritical to say that killing is wrong, but at the same time we make it so by putting criminals to death.

Incorrect. Defense of one's self - and of others - is an absolute right.

Data didn't fire because he didn't like Fajo; he fired because Fajo was a dangerous madman who was going to carry on murdering and stealing, and so Fajo had to be stopped - by any means necessary.

 

[alensatemybuick1]

I voted No. Data was acting under his own authority to defend life. Fajo was a threat to life, so Data was attempting to remove that threat. Data would surely have used a non lethal method if that was available to him, but he didn't have any other means at hand beside the disruptor.

This. In Isaac Asimov's book "Robots and Empire", a robot named Giskard recognizes the need for a Zeroeth Law of Robotics, which trumps even the first law, maintaining that a robot cannot allow humanity to come to harm, something even more important that allowing or causing a human to come to harm. He tries to act according to this law, but it causes his positronic brain to cease functioning (likely because what defined harm to humanity in his case was less "tangible" than what defined harm to an individual or even multiple human beings).

I think Data's case was clearer, as Data had no doubt that Fajo would have killed again and again. That and his own positronic brain was probably sophisticated enough to act on the zeroeth law without damaging itself.

 

[xanne]

^ Fajo had a protective force field in place at all times, so Data could not get close to him. The disruptor beam could pierce the shield, though.
And Fajo's crew would have blocked any attempt by Data to take over the ship.

Why didn't the writers figure it out something to break that force field? or beam Fajo out of it? I don't know the answer, I'm not that expert.

Incorrect. Defense of one's self - and of others - is an absolute right.
Data didn't fire because he didn't like Fajo; he fired because Fajo was a dangerous madman who was going to carry on murdering and stealing, and so Fajo had to be stopped - by any means necessary.

You can defense yourself, that's allright for me but murdering? that's not so RIGHT, it doesn't matter how you put it.

You are assuming that someone like Fajo doesn't change ever in his entire life; but if you don't give him a chance to change or learn from a mistake you'll never know. You just cure the disease by killing the patient and that's not a fair solution. You are as savage as him, or even worse.
Let's see it from another point of view. Animals are cruel and brutal and at a times even irrational, sometimes they kill other animals in order to survive but, there're other times where they do it just for pleasure; for instance, the cat that lives with us, she catch little birds/bees/insects to enjoy herself and usually doesn't eat them afterwards, she is UTTERLY cruel you might say, of course she is!! but it's the way her instincts tell her so, and of course that doesn't mean that we must kill her or any other animal, or any other living being.

He was tempting Data telling him that he's not capable of having any emotion at all, telling him what he was going to do next, and Data fell fot it.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ It was completely obvious that Fajo was never going to change. People like that usually don't. He was a thief, a murderer and a lunatic. And worse yet, he was HAPPY to be those things.