With the weapon brought to bear, Fajo wasn't going anywhere. Data could have just clocked him with a solid punch, attenuated just enough to knock him unconscious.
Poll Why did Data fire?
- Thread starter TardisTrek
- Start date
Fajo had a force field Data couldn't penetrate. He tried that in the 1st few minutes of captivity
So the Varon T Disruptor will zip right through a personal force field as well? And if it can, perhaps Data could just target the force field generator device attached to him.
They gave a pretty solid impression that the disruptor was a crudely violent instrument. I imagine any shot landing on Fajo's person would result in his death. It looked like it strikes and spreads
The best part about how this episode ends is that Data says "perhaps something occured during transport" and Riker leaves it at that. Incredible. That says a lot about Riker, too. Potentially.
Anyway, here's the scene in which the death by Varon T disruptor is described:
[Fajo's den]
FAJO: Have you ever seen one of these, Data?
DATA: It is a disruptor.
FAJO: Well, no. It's a prototype for a Varon-T disruptor.
DATA: The Varon-T disruptor is banned in the Federation.
FAJO: Oh, yes. They only manufactured five of them. I own four. I sleep with one under my pillow at night, and I sleep very well knowing it's there too. Do you know why?
DATA: It is a most lethal weapon.
FAJO: It's not just lethal. It's vicious. It tears a body apart, inside out, and very slowly too by your phaser standards. It's tortuous. A very, very painful death. I've always wanted to try this.
DATA: It is doubtful you will destroy me since you assign so much value to possessing me.
FAJO: That goes without saying. Please come in.
(Varria enters)
FAJO: Varria, how long have we been together, my dear?
VARRIA: Fourteen years.
FAJO: Fourteen wonderful years they were too. She was barely an adult when I found her. She was idealistic, naive, full of dreams. And I made those dreams come true, too, didn't I? I'm going to miss you.
(Fajo points the disruptor at Varria)
DATA: Fajo.
(Data is sitting on the chair)
Anyway, here's the scene in which the death by Varon T disruptor is described:
[Fajo's den]
FAJO: Have you ever seen one of these, Data?
DATA: It is a disruptor.
FAJO: Well, no. It's a prototype for a Varon-T disruptor.
DATA: The Varon-T disruptor is banned in the Federation.
FAJO: Oh, yes. They only manufactured five of them. I own four. I sleep with one under my pillow at night, and I sleep very well knowing it's there too. Do you know why?
DATA: It is a most lethal weapon.
FAJO: It's not just lethal. It's vicious. It tears a body apart, inside out, and very slowly too by your phaser standards. It's tortuous. A very, very painful death. I've always wanted to try this.
DATA: It is doubtful you will destroy me since you assign so much value to possessing me.
FAJO: That goes without saying. Please come in.
(Varria enters)
FAJO: Varria, how long have we been together, my dear?
VARRIA: Fourteen years.
FAJO: Fourteen wonderful years they were too. She was barely an adult when I found her. She was idealistic, naive, full of dreams. And I made those dreams come true, too, didn't I? I'm going to miss you.
(Fajo points the disruptor at Varria)
DATA: Fajo.
(Data is sitting on the chair)
Basically, this still allows us to think the gun is just a phaser set on vicious.
And that means Fajo is out of luck, because Data is a generalist survival machine, while Fajo is a one-trick pony. Does his forcefield allow him to survive the loss of all air in that airlock? The explosion of all those canisters full of spacecraft food around him? The melting of the deck underneath him? Data would have little problem with any of that happening, and he could keep Fajo's henchmen out of the picture as well, despite the potential inaccuracy of his weapon.
Moreover, any of those attacks could be scaled down to only making Fajo suffer horribly. Or slightly, with the potential for upramping. Thus, a very practical threat, and one Data does not need to put to any sort of practice in order to gain the upper hand, either.
Timo Saloniemi
And that means Fajo is out of luck, because Data is a generalist survival machine, while Fajo is a one-trick pony. Does his forcefield allow him to survive the loss of all air in that airlock? The explosion of all those canisters full of spacecraft food around him? The melting of the deck underneath him? Data would have little problem with any of that happening, and he could keep Fajo's henchmen out of the picture as well, despite the potential inaccuracy of his weapon.
Moreover, any of those attacks could be scaled down to only making Fajo suffer horribly. Or slightly, with the potential for upramping. Thus, a very practical threat, and one Data does not need to put to any sort of practice in order to gain the upper hand, either.
Timo Saloniemi
What are you basing that assessment on, your own imagined appraisal of the capacity of a weapon we know nothing about except that it's called lethal?
I don't buy that. Data calls it "Most lethal". Lethal means it kills you. Most lethal means it is of the utmost lethality. Further, from the conversation Data has with Fajo about it, we see that he assumes the gesture of Fajo pointing it at him is not a real threat, because he knows Fajo wouldn't "destroy" him, but were it to be an adjustable level of threat, then why would the conversation point be about total destruction? It doesn't make sense. If he'd said " It is doubtful you would damage me", then I could see an argument being made that the weapon might be capable of varied levels of use. All indication from its description is that it's sole purpose is to ravage a living being to death, thus why it was banned.
On the fact that it's a death ray. To suggest that it would be unlike other death rays in Star Trek calls for proof, and the only proof we have is about the additional viciousness. Apart from that, we can assume standard death ray qualities as universally seen in Trek: if it can't punch holes in walls, that's exceptional and requires extra mention.
And that is not in doubt. The point is that by pointing the gun away from Fajo, Data should inflict any arbitrary level of damage on Fajo, as is inherent in all rayguns. Being "most lethal" or customized "solely" (no, that latter word in quotes is not a quote from the dialogue!) for ravaging lifeforms should not detract from the inherent capabilities unless very specifically established.
It's fairly visual. We see that Varon-T disintegrates. Data could disintegrate something else besides Fajo.
Timo Saloniemi
We don't know that all the energy weapons on Star Trek are similar to Starfleet issued ones. All the proof is in what they're saying & how they're acting about the thing. They only treat it as a weapon for disintegrating a person. We don't even know that it's capable of doing anything besides that, though they both seem pretty sure it'll breach the one type of forcefield that Fajo uses personally, but that's it. Those 2 things are all we can be sure that thing is capable of doing. Anything else is conjecture
And in doing so, risk achieving either an insufficient result, or a collaterally disastrous one? The kind of options you're suggesting all possess unknown factors, which risk Data losing his singular advantage & opportunity, He's never used this weapon before. Maybe he doesn't know what it can do. He's still trapped on a ship he has no access to leave. The only concrete option is to use it to end Fajo as efficiently as possible, imho, because THAT he/we know it can do
Fair enough. Although remarkably, even his ability to finish off Fajo is based on Fajo's own say-so - why should this weapon be assumed to have the ability to penetrate the forcefield unless this is somehow demonstrated?
In terms of Trek evidence, only the Borg and the Hunters have demonstrated personal shields capable of stopping death rays. The two times we saw Federation personal forcefields, TAS and "A Fistful of Datas", we saw no stopping of death rays (indeed, the TAS field was demonstrably incapable of stopping any attack, hypothetically excepting poison gas).
On the other hand, it would be logical for Fajo to make sure to be protected from his own gun - either by purchasing a superior protective gadget, or by fiddling with the settings of the gun. And characteristic of him to fake fear of death while Data works up the anger, then laugh when the supposed deadly attack miserably fails.
Timo Saloniemi
In terms of Trek evidence, only the Borg and the Hunters have demonstrated personal shields capable of stopping death rays. The two times we saw Federation personal forcefields, TAS and "A Fistful of Datas", we saw no stopping of death rays (indeed, the TAS field was demonstrably incapable of stopping any attack, hypothetically excepting poison gas).
On the other hand, it would be logical for Fajo to make sure to be protected from his own gun - either by purchasing a superior protective gadget, or by fiddling with the settings of the gun. And characteristic of him to fake fear of death while Data works up the anger, then laugh when the supposed deadly attack miserably fails.
Timo Saloniemi
We honestly have no way of knowing. Fajo might not even know, but I agree he probably would know. So all that's left to judge is whether you believe his little look of fear, at the moment of truth, to be genuine or not, & either is possible.
True. All that could be true. I don't know if I'd call it anger on Data's part, but the premise that Fajo would be trying to get a rise out of him as an experiment is certainly still plausible. Every one off character on the show who he encounters always seems to be in disbelief about his emotionlessness. Fajo would surely be one to want to test the fact
It seemed in the episode like only Data could not pass the force field.
Sure maybe Data could have thrown a table at him, but that is a half measure with no guarantee of success and if it failed he's costing other people their lives. Data had two real choices to his knowledge. Surrender or kill Fajo in the surest way possible.
Sure maybe Data could have thrown a table at him, but that is a half measure with no guarantee of success and if it failed he's costing other people their lives. Data had two real choices to his knowledge. Surrender or kill Fajo in the surest way possible.
That could very well be true too. Varria tells him that they've gone to great trouble to get him for Fajo's collection. You could assume that such details would include securing key systems to prevent tampering by Data, improving security to prevent escape, erecting forcefields, and containment areas & even locking down the whole ship to Data. They've been studying Data quite a lot with the end game of capturing & holding him indefinitely
"FAJO: It's not just lethal. It's vicious. It tears a body apart, inside out, and very slowly too by your phaser standards. It's tortuous. A very, very painful death. I've always wanted to try this."
The description Fajo gives about the Varon T-Disruptor sounds like it's attenuated to vaporize living organic matter. That would be quite different where inorganic matter is concerned. In any case, seems so short sighted not to have multiple settings, at least in terms of beam spread. The premise of "everything connected gets vaporized" seems ridiculous, because a person is standing on a floor, so... it would then burn a hole in the floor and keep spreading. And if it's only organic matter, then certainly there would be clothing and shoe remnants left behind. Thinking a little too far into this, it seems...
The description Fajo gives about the Varon T-Disruptor sounds like it's attenuated to vaporize living organic matter. That would be quite different where inorganic matter is concerned. In any case, seems so short sighted not to have multiple settings, at least in terms of beam spread. The premise of "everything connected gets vaporized" seems ridiculous, because a person is standing on a floor, so... it would then burn a hole in the floor and keep spreading. And if it's only organic matter, then certainly there would be clothing and shoe remnants left behind. Thinking a little too far into this, it seems...
Just as an arrow or guillotine has but one purpose, so too might this disruptor. Nothing should be suggestive of its nature beyond its stated function, & while that would make it a rather inefficient all around tool, so too would a guillotine be an inefficient tool for dicing pineapples."FAJO: It's not just lethal. It's vicious. It tears a body apart, inside out, and very slowly too by your phaser standards. It's tortuous. A very, very painful death. I've always wanted to try this."
The description Fajo gives about the Varon T-Disruptor sounds like it's attenuated to vaporize living organic matter. That would be quite different where inorganic matter is concerned. In any case, seems so short sighted not to have multiple settings, at least in terms of beam spread. The premise of "everything connected gets vaporized" seems ridiculous, because a person is standing on a floor, so... it would then burn a hole in the floor and keep spreading. And if it's only organic matter, then certainly there would be clothing and shoe remnants left behind. Thinking a little too far into this, it seems...
There are many ruthless & vicious cultures in Star Trek. It's not inconceivable that one would make a thing that's sole use was to cause excruciating death & nothing else, & since that's how both parties in the scene seem to be reacting to its presence, it's fair to suggest it presents an inexorable lethality from any usage
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