Why Could The Doctor Not Create Multiple Avatars of Himself?

[JB2005]

Ok, so I know I'm probably going no where with this, but the Doctor is just a computer program, when we "see" him as a holographic entity, we're really only seeing a computer generated avatar of the program.

So why is it that the Doctor couldn't be manifested in multiple instances, sort of like EMH Tabbed Browsing or something...if he's meant to be an emergency supplement to the medical team, wouldn't that only be of use if he could be in more than one place at once? I mean, if there's an emergency then the CMO would probably be grateful for an extra pair of hands, but on a ship like the Enterprise where they have multiple MDs, Nurses and Medical Techs, what use does just one more pair of hands bring to the party, even if he does have all this knowledge, the fact he can only do one thing at once is a real problem when you think about it...

 

[You_Will_Fail]

Well that opens the bigger issue of why not just install hollow emitters all over the ship and have them do all the work?
I don't think the writers really wanted to open that can of worms because its difficult to answer.

One of my episode ideas for Voyager called "Hollow Image" did actually explore the concept of using multiple holograms to aid the crew however but in that instance it involved the successful replication of the mobile emitter.

http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=128891

 

[Ln X]

The problem stems from the fact that the Doctor is not simply just a soulless automaton, he is a sentient being (as the VOY crew began to realize), and to duplicate him (or create multiple avatars) strays into territory shown in The Measure of a Man. It was a TNG episode where some Starfleet scientist wanted to create a whole race of Datas.

If the Doctor was duplicated in the same fashion then it would bring up the same moral issues as in The Measure of a Man. Frankly it seems very unethical to create some sort of race subservient to you.

 

[Gov Kodos]

The problem stems from the fact that the Doctor is not simply just a soulless automaton, he is a sentient being (as the VOY crew began to realize), and to duplicate him (or create multiple avatars) strays into territory shown in The Measure of a Man. It was a TNG episode where some Starfleet scientist wanted to create a whole race of Datas.

If the Doctor was duplicated in the same fashion then it would bring up the same moral issues as in The Measure of a Man. Frankly it seems very unethical to create some sort of race subservient to you.

The projection isn't the Doctor, it's the computer program which is however the writers seemed to go for the projection we see being the doctor. If the computer were the doc, then it wouldn't matter how many projections there were, they'd all be extensions of the same program, just as your hands are not the mind running them.

 

[Sandoval]

It's all wrapped up in the licensing issue that stipulates that a anyone purchasing an EMH program may install it on one starship only.

 

[The Dominion]

Maybe they could if they were just splitting his image, but that would be stretching him out across several areas, and could be a drain on their power and The Doctor himself. Otherwise, he was a complicated program that would've taken more power than they had to fully duplicate.

 

[JB2005]

But the avatar is arguably the most basic of the Doctor's functions, all it has to do is move in response to what the database and scripting tells it to do...

And we know that the Sickbay Holo-Emitters and Voyager's Holographic Systems are geared up to project more than one complex hologram at once, because we see it with Holo-Barclay and Holo-Vidiaan-Lady-Whose-Name-I-Can't-Spell...

So it isn't a question of projection bandwith, nor is it a question of processing power, because the system can project and run multiple independent programs.

A problem with the conceptualisation of the Doctor is that...well...the writers seemed to forget that he was a computer program, so when they just slapped the mobile emitter on his arm and didn't directly tell the computer to transfer his program, it becomes absurd. I can buy that the computer can upload him to the emitter through WiFi, and that it contains a tiny tiny computer that has enough processing power and memory to accommodate his program, but just slapping it on his arm won't do any good...it's like putting a flash drive against your monitor and expecting the document will transfer, no matter how advanced your technology is, that's not how computers work!

 

[JarodRussell]

I found it always funny how the writers constantly confused the hologram with the program. There's no consistent logic in VOY regarding this. The doctor could have easily used multiple holograms at the same time. IF the program was multi-threaded, and IF the holographic emitters and sensors were capable of creating multiple interactive holograms at the same time. But then they could have easily set sickbay up in a holodeck and be done with it.

It could have made for a fun episode, too. The EMH argueing with multiple versions of himself because they all are arrogant egomaniacs.

 

[exodus]

But the avatar is arguably the most basic of the Doctor's functions, all it has to do is move in response to what the database and scripting tells it to do...

And we know that the Sickbay Holo-Emitters and Voyager's Holographic Systems are geared up to project more than one complex hologram at once, because we see it with Holo-Barclay and Holo-Vidiaan-Lady-Whose-Name-I-Can't-Spell...

So it isn't a question of projection bandwith, nor is it a question of processing power, because the system can project and run multiple independent programs.

A problem with the conceptualisation of the Doctor is that...well...the writers seemed to forget that he was a computer program, so when they just slapped the mobile emitter on his arm and didn't directly tell the computer to transfer his program, it becomes absurd. I can buy that the computer can upload him to the emitter through WiFi, and that it contains a tiny tiny computer that has enough processing power and memory to accommodate his program, but just slapping it on his arm won't do any good...it's like putting a flash drive against your monitor and expecting the document will transfer, no matter how advanced your technology is, that's not how computers work!

As odd as it will sound, why not?

If they can breakdown the human body on a molecular level and put it back together(that's got too be a more complex function that downloading data from a computer), why isn't isn't it possible that 29th century tech can't download and transfer that way?

 

[You_Will_Fail]

Well then I guess they didn't do it because it would be pointless and more bother than its worth!

 

[C.E. Evans]

IMO, the EMH was meant to be used only in sickbay and only in the event the medical staff was desperate and needed an extra set of hands there. Otherwise, flesh and blood medical and other cross-trained personnel would be dispatched to handle anything elsewhere throughout the ship for minor (non life-threatening) emergencies, with the more severe cases beamed immediately directly to sickbay.

 

[JB2005]

But the avatar is arguably the most basic of the Doctor's functions, all it has to do is move in response to what the database and scripting tells it to do...

And we know that the Sickbay Holo-Emitters and Voyager's Holographic Systems are geared up to project more than one complex hologram at once, because we see it with Holo-Barclay and Holo-Vidiaan-Lady-Whose-Name-I-Can't-Spell...

So it isn't a question of projection bandwith, nor is it a question of processing power, because the system can project and run multiple independent programs.

A problem with the conceptualisation of the Doctor is that...well...the writers seemed to forget that he was a computer program, so when they just slapped the mobile emitter on his arm and didn't directly tell the computer to transfer his program, it becomes absurd. I can buy that the computer can upload him to the emitter through WiFi, and that it contains a tiny tiny computer that has enough processing power and memory to accommodate his program, but just slapping it on his arm won't do any good...it's like putting a flash drive against your monitor and expecting the document will transfer, no matter how advanced your technology is, that's not how computers work!

As odd as it will sound, why not?

If they can breakdown the human body on a molecular level and put it back together(that's got too be a more complex function that downloading data from a computer), why isn't isn't it possible that 29th century tech can't download and transfer that way?

Because it suggests that it is possible to configure a hologram by just putting a data module onto its holographic avatar...the avatar doesn't contain any data, it's just photons and forcefields!

And the transporter is fundamentally different, it's advanced technology, but it's in no way comparable! The transporter doesn't just start working because you touch a piece of technology to...a...person...DAMN YOU NEMESIS

Ok so I can see why the mobile emitter makes more sense given that, but the emergency transport module is just SO flawed that it shouldn't justify other bad trek tech!

 

[Guy Gardener]

It would make the Doctor inhuman, and that would go against the grain of everything Zimmerman was going for in so far as "seemless insertions into the human dynamic" that the Doctor was handicapped to seem only human working a thousand times slower than he should, no matter who dies of what, because there's entertainment value in this.

By the way Ln X, with all respect, sentient my ass.

That's just busywork for hippies.

I have no doubt that they could make a sentient AI if they wanted to, but in this case Starfleet wanted a slave, and his ability to think beyond what they wanted him to think or chuck off his yolke is entirely counter-productive.

 

[JB2005]

It would make the Doctor inhuman, and that would go against the grain of everything Zimmerman was going for in so far as "seemless insertions into the human dynamic" that the Doctor was handicapped to seem only human working a thousand times slower than he should, no matter who dies of what, because there's entertainment value in this.

By the way Ln X, with all respect, sentient my ass.

That's just busywork for hippies.

I have no doubt that they could make a sentient AI if they wanted to, but in this case Starfleet wanted a slave, and his ability to think beyond what they wanted him to think or chuck off his yolke is entirely counter-productive.

The only time we really saw the Doctor working at "normal" human rate, was when it was physically impossible not to - running tests etc. And we only ever saw him "thinking" at normal human level when he was processing things outside of his program - like in "Torres-Has-An-Alien-Stuck-To-Her-So-Doc's-Gotta-Get-A-Consult-From-Mengele" when he didn't have exobiology as a component of his database, or when he had to perform commando tactics in Basics.

But in Workforce, he runs Battle simulations almost instantaneously (when he pulls the photonic shockwave trick) and in Renaissance Man he jumps off walls and performs martial arts...the cat's always been out of the bag he's not human, and apart from idle fantasy in "Projections" the Doc's never wanted to be human, so it's curious why they never explored his potential as an AI...

 

[Guy Gardener]

Compared to living a few years for of life in seconds on the blink planet, the Doctor was for the most part not operating on all cylinders fro the most part.

He consulted "Mengeles" VERBALLY.

They're prancing around patting each other on the back and telling stories while that limpet was eating the chief engineer.

Hells, it's possible on some level he even chose the vivisectionist on purpose just to give the crew something interesting to do, as if B'Elanna dying form a parasite was just a little tame for the mojoverse prolls on Voyager.

 

[JB2005]

The implication with consulting Mengele was that they were equally complex programs and the Doctor's program couldn't handle the data (which is nonsense, but given the source)

and I don't think there's any indication that they are working "slower" than possible. They are studying the creature, performing simulations etc. Yes they're prancing and patting (Good thing it wasn't a musical episode... "2...3...4...If i had one dream it'd be Auschwitz...") but it wasn't to the detriment of their work!

 

[Guy Gardener]

But he wasn't as complex.

Not nearly.

Pretending they're People is easy.

But that hologram only needed the maintain the medical knowledge of Crel Mosset, while the Doctor had to jumble together the conflicting instincts and knowledge of 1000s and 1000s of Doctors form hundred sand hundreds of worlds.

 

[JB2005]

Which makes it questionable why Krell Moset wasn't one of them...since the data was in Voyager's memory banks, it's not like he was unknown to the Federation...

 

[Guy Gardener]

Remember Darkling?

The doctor learnt to be careful with how he adds personalities more-so than data to his program.

 

[exodus]

But the avatar is arguably the most basic of the Doctor's functions, all it has to do is move in response to what the database and scripting tells it to do...

And we know that the Sickbay Holo-Emitters and Voyager's Holographic Systems are geared up to project more than one complex hologram at once, because we see it with Holo-Barclay and Holo-Vidiaan-Lady-Whose-Name-I-Can't-Spell...

So it isn't a question of projection bandwith, nor is it a question of processing power, because the system can project and run multiple independent programs.

A problem with the conceptualisation of the Doctor is that...well...the writers seemed to forget that he was a computer program, so when they just slapped the mobile emitter on his arm and didn't directly tell the computer to transfer his program, it becomes absurd. I can buy that the computer can upload him to the emitter through WiFi, and that it contains a tiny tiny computer that has enough processing power and memory to accommodate his program, but just slapping it on his arm won't do any good...it's like putting a flash drive against your monitor and expecting the document will transfer, no matter how advanced your technology is, that's not how computers work!

As odd as it will sound, why not?

If they can breakdown the human body on a molecular level and put it back together(that's got too be a more complex function that downloading data from a computer), why isn't isn't it possible that 29th century tech can't download and transfer that way?

Because it suggests that it is possible to configure a hologram by just putting a data module onto its holographic avatar...the avatar doesn't contain any data, it's just photons and forcefields!

And the transporter is fundamentally different, it's advanced technology, but it's in no way comparable! The transporter doesn't just start working because you touch a piece of technology to...a...person...DAMN YOU NEMESIS

Ok so I can see why the mobile emitter makes more sense given that, but the emergency transport module is just SO flawed that it shouldn't justify other bad trek tech!

Sorry, I'm still not seeing the problem.