Why can't they say "Prime Directive" on this show?

...Is it now okay to include stuff from the Franz Joseph tech manual, such as the two tugs or the UFP symbol?

Timo Saloniemi

 

Base on that they were move from Earth by force by the red angel, the prime directive wouldn't applied. Federation colonie law would apply. They can't be remove by force, except for emergency or request of that coat colonie ruling government. They can't be forcibly advance with new technology, without a request by that colonie ruling government.

 

They’re not technically a colony. This doesn’t apply.

They don’t even know if earth is still livable.

From their perspective they’re the last known humans alive.

The Prime directive applies.

 

I ask because the Kzin Wars books are still being made in Niven's Known Space universe too. Man-Kzin Wars 15 comes out next year.

 

Or at the very least, Pike's interpretation and reasoning was completely valid.

 

Umm, Kirk had no problem telling Earthling colonies to shoo, or to change their evil ways. He had little influence over full Federation Members such as Ardana, but at Omicron Ceti Kirk says he has orders to tell the colonists to leave, Boss Sandoval says No and Reasons, and Kirk says he'll drag the colonists away by force if it comes to that, regardless of Reasons.

Terralysium would probably be screwed either way. If it agrees to be an Earth colony, Pike gets the dragaway authority. If it doesn't, this would come as the result of deliberations where the colonists learn of the options, and the PD would no longer protect them by its "innocent primitives" clause. Although it might protect them by its "no interfering in foreign affairs" clause, this is something that Pike's bosses can overturn. And Pike seems to have a lot of faith in apologizing over asking.

It's only as matters currently stand that the place is untouchable. And Kirk would find a loophole there in a heartbeat, perhaps "letting slip" a crucial fact or something. Did he learn this from Pike?

Timo Saloniemi

 

A side note regarding some of the things George Lucas might have actually been thinking of with "Order 66":

Order 9066 was FDR's Presidential Executive Order that allowed the incarceration of innocent Japanese-Americans, Italian-Americans, and German-Americans during WWII.

General Order 11 was the order issued by General Grant in 1862 expelling Jewish people from areas of Tennessee, Mississippi, and Kentucky.

Missouri Executive Order 44, also known as the Extermination Order, was an executive order issued on October 27, 1838, by the Governor of Missouri, Lilburn Boggs. It read "the Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the State if necessary for the public peace—their outrages are beyond all description". It was not actually withdrawn until 1976.

 

No, the prime directive only applies if the planet belong to another civilisation. Even though they knew or don't know that Earth is livable the prime directive still wouldn't applied.

 

Not true. It applies to all species.

 

Difficult to tell for sure, but TNG showed the heroes freely interacting with the colony of "Masterpiece Society" and saying that them being Earthlings allows for this - yet tiptoeing around the colony of "Legacy", a former Earth settlement that had in practice seceded. Back in TOS, exceptions to the PD were more common than applications, so common in fact that Spock felt the need to point out that the PD was in force for a rare once in "Bread and Circuses".

Suffice to say that it's complicated, I guess. And the skipper's call in most cases. And here Pike has an apparent personal agenda of letting the heroic settlers be. For now.

Timo Saloniemi

 

Just to avoid any unfortunate misunderstandings, let it be noted that Larry Niven is still very much alive, so this is not a matter for his "estate" just yet.

 

My apologies. i feel bad about that.

 

And potentially still writing, even though he claims he's done with his Known Space. But that need not mean that him letting others play in his Kzinti litterbox would be coming to an end any time soon. And there's money to be made there.

Timo Saloniemi

 

Any differences in the application of the PD in the TNG era vs. the TOS era (and the slightly earlier DSC era) could simply be attributed to the PD being revised sometime during the approximately 100 years spanning those eras.

 

No need to feel bad. I just wanted to clarify.

 

Gee, Pike (a different Captain), happens to use different terminology from Kirk...THE HORROR!

Plus, Kirk used the 'General Order' terminology from time to time:

TOS - "The Menagerie":
http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/16.htm

TOS - "A Taste Of Armageddon":
http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/23.htm

So, in the end, it's personal preference it seems.

 

I wouldn't necessarily assume anything. If ENTERPRISE was planning to use the Kzinti, they may have also been planning to work out some sort of new deal with Niven. Or maybe a tentative agreement was already in place? But when the show got cancelled, I imagine any such agreement became academic. Who knows if any contracts were actually signed or money changed hands?

The Kzinti are an odd case in that Niven used his own, pre-existing creation in a STAR TREK ep. I'm not well-versed in the details, but I doubt that solitary TAS episode means that STAR TREK has unlimited rights to the Kzinti in perpetuity. You want to use the Kzinti, you probably need to pay for the privilege.

(To be clear, this is all speculation on my part. I have no inside info here.)

 

You feel bad about him being alive?

(Yeah, yeah - I know. Just had to try to get yer goat. )

 

Since when do you have to be another species to be another civilization?

 

Of course the PD applied here, just like it did in "The Paradise Syndrome."

Kor