Why Bring Back Rose Tyler?

[Sci]

You mean, Mickey, the guy who reacted to her almost dying by ignoring it and going down to the pub for a drink and a football match? Mickey, the guy who told Rose not to read his emails? (Hell, RTD himself said in The Writer's Tale that the intent there was that Mickey was cheating on Rose.)

Rose dumped him. That does not mean she is promiscuous.

That's still one of the weakest arguments (the emails) for cheating evidence I've ever heard and RTD utterly, utterly failed to communicate that. I'm all about authorial intent, but in this case there's just no way I can agree with that interpretation.

And meanwhile, I immediately thought Mickey was cheating on Rose the first time I saw "Rose" back in 2006, when I first discovered Doctor Who. Between that and the complete lack of concern he showed for Rose's place of work blowing up, it never occurred to me that Mickey wasn't cheating on her.

And it's generally on the breaker to inform the breakee.

She ran away with another man right in front of him after he asked her not to. How much more informed can you get? She dumped him. She may have been cruel about it, but that's not the same thing as being promiscuous.

 

[Admiral_Young]

We're not talking about all women right now...we've been talking about Rose specifically and my point is that it wasn't necessary to call her a slut. @Kestra...you're right about the word bitch, I agreed with you, but since it wasn't used in what I was arguing against I chose not to explore your question further because I had no suitable answer. You of course are correct that either of these words shouldn't be used in the context that they were or continued to be used.

 

[Thestral]

And meanwhile, I immediately thought Mickey was cheating on Rose the first time I saw "Rose" back in 2006, when I first discovered Doctor Who. Between that and the complete lack of concern he showed for Rose's place of work blowing up, it never occurred to me that Mickey wasn't cheating on her.

Oh come on, that was clearly being played for comedy about his shallowness. Bad boyfriend, yes... cheater? I didn't exactly see Jackie showing a whole lot of concern either, and it's her daughter we're talking about. And you're suggesting that the only reason Mickey wants her not to read his e-mails is because he might be cheating? Maybe the guy just values his privacy and she has a history of snooping. If RTD really wanted to imply Mickey was a cheater he could've done a much better job of it.

She ran away with another man right in front of him after he asked her not to. How much more informed can you get? She dumped him. She may have been cruel about it, but that's not the same thing as being promiscuous.

Eh, fair enough. But you'll notice I've said upthread there's no justification for calling Rose a slut, so hold up on implying that I think kicking Mickey to the curb is evidence of her promiscuity.

We're not talking about all women right now...we've been talking about Rose specifically and my point is that it wasn't necessary to call her a slut. @Kestra...you're right about the word bitch, I agreed with you, but since it wasn't used in what I was arguing against I chose not to explore your question further because I had no suitable answer. You of course are correct that either of these words shouldn't be used in the context that they were or continued to be used.

Fair nuff. And 'fraid I'm not Kestra - I could never be that charming or well-loved.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ Ooops. Sorry Kestrel! Haha.

 

[Thestral]

No worries, it happens. Usually me being mistaken for her, so far as I know.

 

[Kestra]

No worries, it happens. Usually me being mistaken for her, so far as I know.

Sometimes I see your posts and briefly wonder why I don't remember writing them. Does that count?

Edit: In skimming some of the posts, I just want to make the comment that words like slut and bitch aren't really necessary at all. One can define behavior or even express a distaste for it without using those words. They just seem lazy and dehumanizing to me.

 

[Thestral]

No worries, it happens. Usually me being mistaken for her, so far as I know.

Sometimes I see your posts and briefly wonder why I don't remember writing them. Does that count?

Edit: In skimming some of the posts, I just want to make the comment that words like slut and bitch aren't really necessary at all. One can define behavior or even express a distaste for it without using those words. They just seem lazy and dehumanizing to me.

That's kinda awesome!

And I totally agree about the non-necessity of certain words (even if I do use some others in TNZ)

 

[Starkers]

I don't remember Rose flirting with Adam, I'll have to rewatch those eps, I remember it being purely platonic, and the Doctor inviting Adam along to distract Rose's passion away from himself. Obviously that didn't work, because Adam was a very manly man (Mickey, Rory and Jack are all far more manly, IMHO)

Oh I recall it being fairly obvious that she was interested, and it was she who pursuded the Doctor to bring him along-I think she got whatever it was out of her system pretty quick.

As for Mickey, not the sharpest tool in the box back then but even a moron surely knows if you tell someone not to read your emails they will!

 

[Sindatur]

I don't remember Rose flirting with Adam, I'll have to rewatch those eps, I remember it being purely platonic, and the Doctor inviting Adam along to distract Rose's passion away from himself. Obviously that didn't work, because Adam was a very manly man (Mickey, Rory and Jack are all far more manly, IMHO)

Oh I recall it being fairly obvious that she was interested, and it was she who pursuded the Doctor to bring him along-I think she got whatever it was out of her system pretty quick.

As for Mickey, not the sharpest tool in the box back then but even a moron surely knows if you tell someone not to read your emails they will!

Gah...that was meant to say "Adam wasn't a very Manly Man"

 

[Neroon]

My girlfriend and I have been together for several years. Feeble try. And again, get off your soapbox. There's nothing misogynistic about calling a woman a slut. Calling all women sluts, yes. Calling one woman a slut, no. Maybe you need to refresh yourself on the word's definition.

It might be a better idea for you and everyone to avoid using the words such as "slut" so much, if at all. For one, we're getting way off topic. For another, such overuse doesn't help the atmosphere in the forum, which has been having problems of similar sort lately.

 

[Winterwind]

It might be an even better idea for you to read this thread from start to finish before singling me out.

I didn't start it and I certainly didn't make any personal comments the way some people here feel they have the right to comment on Omaha in a personal way, or to assume that my posting my opinion of a fictional character entitles them to make and post comments about my personal life and my personal relationships. But thank you for quoting my post. Because what I said is 100% correct.

If you're going to be a mod, do your job properly.

Comments to PM.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ I didn't bring up your personal life...you did that yourself. I'm entitled to voice my opinion on a post and I did. The majority of the posters since OmahaStar's original post would seem to agree with me about the use of the word no matter the definition or justification you would continue to use. I've still seen nothing from you or OmahaStar clarifying Rose was a slut...I figure because you both can't.

 

[Winterwind]

^ I didn't bring up your personal life...you did that yourself.

Nice try but on page three of this thread you wrote:

Again. I don't give a damn if Rose Tyler is a fictional character or not. Or if you like her or not. It's not necessary to call her an obnoxious slut and I felt offended by Omaha Star using that term. I guess that's okay language to use though...and no one still has provided any shred of evidence to suggest otherwise to me. "It's a fictional character" just reeks of ignorance...and as for being on a soapbox...I guess you don't have a woman in your life Josan if you think it's okay to use derogatory terms in that manner. If you did then maybe you'd understand why this is offense. It's called having respect.

That just cost you any credibility you may have thought you had.

I'm entitled to voice my opinion on a post and I did. The majority of the posters since OmahaStar's original post would seem to agree with me about the use of the word no matter the definition or justification you would continue to use. I've still seen nothing from you or OmahaStar clarifying Rose was a slut...I figure because you both can't.

Yes, that's the great thing about forums, and life in general. People are allowed to have, and express, opinions. And since the application of that S-word is subjective, anyone is entitled to state their opinions of who it applies to.

Now, as far as finding offense goes:

There are no language filters on these forums. The F-word, which I find far more offensive than the S-word, is tossed around all too often. Or maybe we should include both words, and any others that the members find offensive, to a language filter.

And I just noticed that there's a very large thread, with over 3000 posts, in the TV and Media forum called "Sleep With, Be Friends with or Chuck of a Cliff".

What that boils down to is "Fuck, Befriend or Murder".

When I was part of the team at the old Interplay/Black Isle Studios boards, we had to shut down ALL community, non-game specific forums because there was a similar thread, only dealing with politicians and someone posted that Bush should be offed. A child's parent saw that thread and threatened legal action.

So, wouldn't it be funny if some insecure and uptight celebrity became aware of that thread and decided to take legal action to shut down these forums and sue the owners for allowing the members to post openly about wanting them dead and for the mods to do nothing about it.

And one last point, since we're being all hypersensitive here:

My girlfriend finds this thread highly amusing. She's also a feminist and when she saw your avatar, her comment was that that had better be a picture of either yourself or your significant other because if not, regardless of your gender, she finds your use of a woman in a bikini for your avatar to be degrading to women because it's objectifying them.

 

[RoJoHen]

I personally have no problem with the word slut. I just think people here are using it incorrectly. I'm still waiting for somebody to explain what Rose Tyler did that was so "slutty." Or did I miss the episode where she started sleeping around with a bunch of guys?

 

[Shazam!]

I just want to make the comment that words like slut and bitch aren't really necessary at all. One can define behavior or even express a distaste for it without using those words. They just seem lazy and dehumanizing to me.

Yeah, can we all use 'whore' please?

 

[Kestra]

I just want to make the comment that words like slut and bitch aren't really necessary at all. One can define behavior or even express a distaste for it without using those words. They just seem lazy and dehumanizing to me.

Yeah, can we all use 'whore' please?

No.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I'm sorry if my avatar is offensive to your girlfriend who once again you've brought up...my avatar taken in that context is indeed objectifying women if you wanna be technical but then again there are probably hundreds of posters who have similar pics of women they admire. No doubt same with the female posters of this BBS. My point in bringing up if you had a woman in your life was obvious and for some reason you are choosing to attack me by tossing it back into my face. I'm glad your girlfriend doesn't find the use of this word offensive. That wasn't my point, the point I was attempting to make...I guess in error that there must be someone who would in your life. I will acknowledge that perhaps I overblew my original intent with my post. At least though I attempted to analyze OmahaStar's post in why he chose use that phrasing concerning Rose. Josan you just keep on posting about my dislike of the word.

 

[Starkers]

Harlot? (ducks)

This still comes back to Rose not really being a slut, in fact nobody in Who is a slut. Jack it might be argued is, but we never see any evidence of this, again he's just a big tart flirting with any and everybody but its all very innocent within the context of Dr Who really.

I don't think Rose acts that badly really, people forget she's supposed to be a 19 year old woman, heck I know I was a more selfish/less experienced/dumber person back when I was 19 (waits for someone to say things haven't changed...) and I suspect everyone here was too (and apologies to anyone who is 19 now, I'm sure you're much more mature than I was back then! )

Obnoxious; Yes
Slut: No
Should she have been brought back in s4: No
Should she have been in The End of Time: Yes.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Yeah the point of Rose was that she was a 19 year old girl who was going through the motions and unsure of herself and living a kind of mundane life until this mysterious man showed up and told her to run! One could argue that Rose took that literal, using the offer to travel with the Doctor to literally run away from all her responsibilities back on Earth. Rose probably felt free when she was with the Doctor. This would be where my earlier point of her being naive comes in.

This has probably become a lot more obvious through my arguments in this thread but I liked Rose. I understood what she was meant to represent...I think having Rose in just "Turn Left" and "Journey's End" would have been better than the teases of her beforehand. RTD really was milking her return here. I loved her End of Time appearance. Thought it was emotional and touching scene between the Doctor and her.

 

[Neroon]

It might be an even better idea for you to read this thread from start to finish before singling me out.

I didn't start it and I certainly didn't make any personal comments the way some people here feel they have the right to comment on Omaha in a personal way, or to assume that my posting my opinion of a fictional character entitles them to make and post comments about my personal life and my personal relationships. But thank you for quoting my post. Because what I said is 100% correct.

If you're going to be a mod, do your job properly.

Comments to PM.

For everyone's attention:

#1.) Please note that everyone was addressed in my comment, because there are multiple participants in this little conflagration.

#2.) We are attempting to keep the overall atmosphere in this forum from further deteriorating, hence the caution against using some of these more caustic terms to freely. Look at how they've already amped up the tension needlessly.

#3.) If anybody really feels the need to continue discussing this, then let's do so via PM. If you'd like this thread to continue, then dial things back on the use of terms like "slut" and get back to the actual topic at hand.