Why are they still keeping "the secret?"

[Gotham Central]

On some level I find the idea that the Stargate is still a secret (given the sheer number of people that are aware of its existance) the least believeable part of the whole Stargate universe. DC leaks constantly. Given that multiple presidents, members of congress, members of all 3 branches of the military, the State Department, not to mention private contractors, and foreign governments are aware of the program...There is NO WAY IN HELL that a secret this big could have been kept this long.

Beyond that though, I wondering why they even bother to keep it a secret? There does not seem to be a reasonable reason to keep all of this quiet. All of the major powers are aware of its existance and are invested in the program. At this point, maintaining the secret has actually hurt Earth more than helped.

Think about everything that is lost by keeping this secret...

1) Full disclosure would make it possible for governments to openly divert funding and resources for planetary defense. (think a real space station, orbital defenses, lunar and intra system bases). Not to mention the ability to train whole armies for off world combat.

2) Forget the Alpha-Gamma sites, Earth could begin full on colonization of alien worlds.

3) Access to cheap resources....ignoring the fact that we could openly use technology like the Naqiudah reactors or ZPMs but alien worlds would definately have things like oil or mineral deposits.

4) Trade = Money = power

5) It would be far easier to tap Earth's intellectual resources. Imagine turning Atlantis into a giant university or R & D facility. The private sector alone would pay a fortune for access.

6) The political/diplomatic clout from being able to actually help our allies.

and on and on and on...

At this point it seems like Earth is hurting itself more by not divulging the truth to its people.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

All those are great points and I think the exact same way. I would like to see maybe a direct to DVD Stargate movie where the secret is told to the world.
Like you said, all the Earths major players and strongest economies, Russia, China, the UK and France already know about it.
It doesn't make sense to have a world so technologically young with a people who don't know about anything beyond their world and yet it has a stargate program, its soldiers have brought about the end of Goa'uld, there are ships jam pack full of advanced Asgard technology, there's an expedition in Pegasus and they're fighting the wraith. Yet over 6 Billion people on Earth know nothing about it.

It's almost as bad as the Goa'uld pretending to be Gods and using the Jaffa as slaves. The SGC and all its affiliates are like a secret society with advanced technology who is using the people of Earth to build their ships, pay their wages and mine their resources. Why should the people of Earth be used and abused and not be told anything? the SGC and it's affiliates might aswell leave Earth and have their own planet and use the Jaffa same way as they were used by the Goa'uld. What's the difference? At least the Jaffa was in on what was happening, the people of Earth are worse off, they're being used to fuel the SGC and it's affiliates and they don't even know about it.

Do you see where i'm coming from?

I once mentioned in a thread about how much easier it would have been to defeat the Goa'uld if the entire worlds armed forces were at the SGC's disposal. If the entire world put together it's money, resources and manpower and built dozens of Daedalus class ships.

 

[Brent]

I think its cause the writers et al just don't know how to write it properly, especially within a TV budget. Maybe now that its in movie land it will eventually be done, but I still lack faith in their ability to pen a good enough script to deal with it, I think that they simply don't know what to do with it and how to make it really good.

 

[The Wormhole]

Never mind why, the relevant question from my perspective is how are they still keeping the secret. Hundreds of people know, based on all the SG teams, personell at the SGC, Atlantis, off-world bases, and starships. Plus add on to that the occasional Earth civilian who learns about it on a yearly basis on SG-1 and Atlantis, and you really got to wonder how this thing stays a secret anymore.

 

[Finn]

^yeah, we don't know how many ordinary civilians actually know about it, like Pete. But I've wondered if there are stories floating around the Colorado Springs area after all those years but have been so far dismissed as rumors despite some odd incidents. Especially since there are probably some children who know about it, possibly Jeannie's kid who might pick it up from her parents' conversations after a while. No piece of paper from the government can stop a 5 year old from drawing a picture of a stargate in kindergarten.

 

[broberfett]

The secret is easy to keep. It would line up with UFOs or ghosts as a laugh off conspiracy theory or trailer park idiocy. Once it is labeled as a conspiracy then you can't prove it to scientific, classy, proper folks that it is real unless you take them and have them walk through. No rumor or even pictures will satisfy the right thinking people.

I would like to see them reveal it. They are giving humanity the shaft. All the benefits of that technology are being kept for the government's power. It reminds me of the cold war. The enemy knows, our government knows, but the people can't know some secret.

 

[bullethead]

Honestly, I would to see them reveal the gate so they expand ship production outside of Area 51, but I doubt the IOA and SGC would be stupid enough to give access to all of the technology they've acquired. Most of the technology the SGC has should be kept under lock and key due to how dangerous they can in the wrong hands, with things like intars, fusion reaction tech (probably in the Asgard database), and some medical tech being released to the public.

 

[Brent]

I think the only way to put a positive spin on revealing the gate to the public would be to have a handful of key medical treatments and advances to release to them at the same time, to show that it has been very useful to Earth. For example having the cure for cancer, aids, and other deadly diseases would surely help the people cope with the fact we've been fighting space wars behind the peoples backs. Could even go down the route of answering Earth's energy problems by revealing fusion generators and such to solve Earth's energy problems, this would make people feel a lot better about the program if they had these things to show, answering real-world problems. I wouldn't be so harsh on them knowing they've got and have released things to answer several of Earth's problems we face today, that would make me feel a lot better about it.

 

[QCzar]

The truth is, of course, always the simplest answer. The writers are cowards.

But, from an SGC/IOC standpoint, you've got to remember that Stargate is set in our world. Our modern, shitty ass world, where people still kill eachother on mass on a fairly routine basis. The same cannot be said of about 90% of the worlds the Tau'ri have visited. As some of the Goa'uld have noted, the Tau'ri are really not that much different when you get down to the nitty gritty.

Just look at the Trust. Now imagine that on a global scale. Imagine North Korea with fusion reactor powered weapons. Imagine Iran making deals with the Lucian Alliance to "stand against the imperialist west". Imagine the non-aligned world's reaction to the fact that most of this is controlled by the already near-universally distrusted US government. IMO, a lot of people's reaction to this here is based on the as yet unproven Star Trek myth. The notion that, simply because humans know that there are others out there, we'll all of a sudden forget all of our "petty grievances" and have a nice, global, sappy kumbaya moment.

But even in the SG universe (as well as in most non-Trek universes) this is often proven not to be the case. Look at the Colonials on BSG. Their running for their fucking (or fraking) lives and still manage to fuck each other over. In B5, the Earth Alliance is still an actual "alliance", not a federal state. The only other worlds known to the SGC that have similar distributions of nations states are almost universally at war with eachother. Kelowna anyone? If anything, these case studies in human asshattery strengthen their resolve to hold onto the secret.

What do you imagine people who believe that demons are "part of the end times" will do with knowledge that there are actual (as Teal'c calls them) "demons" lurking around on Earth, posing an normal folks? What do you imagine would happen if we, given the nature of American politics, end up with demagogues running on scare tactics, advocating outright war or isolationism? Would we end up with a President Kinsey?

Now, of course I agree that the actual secret itself has been highly implausibly kept, but to say that the IOC has no motivation for doing so, when we ourselves (IRL) may end up in a war to keep very public nuclear technology out of the hands of a legitimate state, is complete folly. Earth is not Athos. It is not Tollana or Dakara. It isn't a homogenous, monolithic, Vancouver forest planet. Earth is a train wreck.

They have plenty of motivation and justification. Us. I think, if it were real, we should have the right to decide (and fuck up) for ourselves. But I definitely understand the "why", if not the "how".

 

[All Seeing Eye]

I think its cause the writers et al just don't know how to write it properly, especially within a TV budget. Maybe now that its in movie land it will eventually be done, but I still lack faith in their ability to pen a good enough script to deal with it, I think that they simply don't know what to do with it and how to make it really good.

Easy, they make a Stargate Atlantis movie, a movie that finishes off the Atlantis series and which ends up having the truth coming out to all the people of the Earth. How would it happen? the wraith discover the location of Earth again and are made aware that it is in another Galaxy and that the Milky Way Galaxy has billions upon billions of Humans to feed on. They decide enough is enough and put a stop to the civil war. Their entire race combines forces and sets course for Earth. They eventually reach Earth and begin culling it, making the entire planet aware that there is ET life, there's an epic battle on Earth between the wraith and Earths conventional militarys, there's an epic battle around Earth between the Wraith and Earths Daedalus class ships including the remaining drones stored at the Antarctica weapon array. The free Jaffa also come to the aid of Earth by sending Ha'tak class ships and Alkesh bombers and gliders. Just when it seems the battle may be lost the Atlantis city ship drops out of Hyperspace, with a newly acquired stockpile of drone weapons (acquired previously) and fires its drones at the Wraith taking out several dozen hive ships.
The battle is finally won and the president of the United States makes an announcement to the world, telling them about the wraith, the Stargate program and just about everything else. It is at this point, where the president is announcing to the world the truth about the Stargate etc that the film ends, showing mass gatherings of people around TVs listening to him talking, as we hear the voice over of the president we also see Atlantis make and emergency landing on top of the Atlantic ocean near the Azores having heavily depleted its ZPM it has no other option other than to land on Earth. As the film goes to the credits we know now that the people of Earth are going to know everything.
Any future movie after this can follow on by having the people of Earth fully in the know after several months.

 

[DWF]

I think its cause the writers et al just don't know how to write it properly, especially within a TV budget. Maybe now that its in movie land it will eventually be done, but I still lack faith in their ability to pen a good enough script to deal with it, I think that they simply don't know what to do with it and how to make it really good.

Easy, they make a Stargate Atlantis movie, a movie that finishes off the Atlantis series and which ends up having the truth coming out to all the people of the Earth. How would it happen? the wraith discover the location of Earth again and are made aware that it is in another Galaxy and that the Milky Way Galaxy has billions upon billions of Humans to feed on. They decide enough is enough and put a stop to the civil war. Their entire race combines forces and sets course for Earth. They eventually reach Earth and begin culling it, making the entire planet aware that there is ET life, there's an epic battle on Earth between the wraith and Earths conventional militarys, there's an epic battle around Earth between the Wraith and Earths Daedalus class ships including the remaining drones stored at the Antarctica weapon array. The free Jaffa also come to the aid of Earth by sending Ha'tak class ships and Alkesh bombers and gliders. Just when it seems the battle may be lost the Atlantis city ship drops out of Hyperspace, with a newly acquired stockpile of drone weapons (acquired previously) and fires its drones at the Wraith taking out several dozen hive ships.
The battle is finally won and the president of the United States makes an announcement to the world, telling them about the wraith, the Stargate program and just about everything else. It is at this point, where the president is announcing to the world the truth about the Stargate etc that the film ends, showing mass gatherings of people around TVs listening to him talking, as we hear the voice over of the president we also see Atlantis make and emergency landing on top of the Atlantic ocean near the Azores having heavily depleted its ZPM it has no other option other than to land on Earth. As the film goes to the credits we know now that the people of Earth are going to know everything.
Any future movie after this can follow on by having the people of Earth fully in the know after several months.

That was how it was supposed to happen in The Lost City's movie version, but it would more or less end Stargate altogether yo might as well call it V or Earth: Final Conflict since that's the direction the Stargate franchise would take after SGC goes public.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

For the world to find out would require the story to be dragged in an Earth-centric direction and Stargate really isn't interested in such things. In reality, something like this being made public would be incredibly explosive because it would mean humanity would learn how much catastrophic danger the Stargate program has put them in, and is still putting them in (eg, the Wraith almost finding the way to Earth via the Atlantis' team's ongoing epic stupidity).

Ironically next week on SG:A,

Spoiler: next week's preview

we see the Atlanteans being put on trial for being a danger to Pegasus. Well when ya get through with them, send them to Earth because they should be put on trial here, too.

 

[Caretaker]

The problem with the program being made public is that Earth society would change, and not be recognizable. And part of what makes Stargate work is it's about us humans, here and now. After a change that big, things would change so much, that "reality" would not exist anymore.

It has nothing to do with cowardice by the writers. It's about practicality.

 

[Harvey]

It has nothing to do with cowardice by the writers. It's about practicality.

I might have been able to buy that justification a few seasons ago, but let's look at the situation on the ground now. Earth is running multiple off-world outposts (Gamma Site, Alpha Site, how many more Sites are there?) including the "City of the Ancients." They're pumping out huge intergalactic ships off the conveyer belt like they were sausages, and they've got so many people involved with the program that they have Stargate teams left and right.

What are they keeping now, leaving Earth as "our" world? A world, which doesn't even have the same people leading our nations (and apparently has US elections on some weird alternate schedule).

The latest incarnation takes place in another galaxy. The next incarnation, soon to take over, will take place even further away. What does Earth matter at all at this point? And when they do manage to get back, they are hardly ever interacting with "normal" people, but people who already know about the Stargate program.

 

[DWF]

It has nothing to do with cowardice by the writers. It's about practicality.

I might have been able to buy that justification a few seasons ago, but let's look at the situation on the ground now. Earth is running multiple off-world outposts (Gamma Site, Alpha Site, how many more Sites are there?) including the "City of the Ancients." They're pumping out huge intergalactic ships off the conveyer belt like they were sausages, and they've got so many people involved with the program that they have Stargate teams left and right.

What are they keeping now, leaving Earth as "our" world? A world, which doesn't even have the same people leading our nations (and apparently has US elections on some weird alternate schedule).

The latest incarnation takes place in another galaxy. The next incarnation, soon to take over, will take place even further away. What does Earth matter at all at this point? And when they do manage to get back, they are hardly ever interacting with "normal" people, but people who already know about the Stargate program.

The last BC 304 came out two years ago there were only four made so no they aren't churning them out on a esembly line. And where would the stargate program itself be if they went public? There'd be no more nice trips though the gate and there'd be religious, social and technologal changes to earth that would take the show away from being about the stargate so it amounts to the same thing.

 

[Harvey]

The last BC 304 came out two years ago there were only four made so no they aren't churning them out on a esembly line. And where would the stargate program itself be if they went public? There'd be no more nice trips though the gate and there'd be religious, social and technologal changes to earth that would take the show away from being about the stargate so it amounts to the same thing.

But that's a different argument. I was countering the point that revealing the Stargate program would take the series' version of Earth too far away from our own reality. My point is that it already is far removed from reality. As for the F-304 comment, perhaps I took the sausage metaphor too far, but the fact remains we're supposed to believe that the US government has somehow been able to cover up the construction of four (Prometheus, Daedalus, Odyssey, Apollo) space-worthy, super-advanced aircraft-carrier-sized ships? It's been seven years now since the Prometheus was built. Secrets of this size tend to get out. The number of people working on the ships to get them built in such a short period of time would have to be enormous.

As for the changes that would result in the show, they're the exact reason I'd be interested in seeing this storyline carried forth! And, considering the new series will involve a group who are cut off from Earth, this appears to be the perfect opportunity to tell the Stargate goes public story (perhaps in a DVD or TV movie), precisely because it won't affect the show being about going through the Stargate (as much as Universe may or may not retain that).

 

[DWF]

As for the changes that would result in the show, they're the exact reason I'd be interested in seeing this storyline carried forth! And, considering the new series will involve a group who are cut off from Earth, this appears to be the perfect opportunity to tell the Stargate goes public story (perhaps in a DVD or TV movie), precisely because it won't affect the show being about going through the Stargate (as much as Universe may or may not retain that).

What would happen to the stargate in your mind should the project become public? Would the public believe the story, would it put on display and teken out of the hands of the government? It wouldn't just change the show it'd change the entire concept of the Stargate shows.

The big question is if it were real would you believe the story about the stargate and the adventures of the SG teams who've been though the gate?

 

[firehawk12]

This is basically the fundamental problem with setting it in the "real world". I mean, it was interesting back in the early days when they didn't have all the tech and basically had to rely on modern science to solve their problems, but once they got ships and transporters and beam weapons, it just got a little bit ridiculous.

Of course, the show is so insular in that they never address the real world so for the most part none of the outside politics interfere with the show, but still.

 

[Harvey]

The big question is if it were real would you believe the story about the stargate and the adventures of the SG teams who've been though the gate?

At first, of course not. The idea is preposterous. The physics are unsound. But it's hard to deny what's in front of one's own eyes. It's hard to deny a reliable witness, especially if there's more than one. Acceptance of the Stargate's existence would take time, and would be a process, but it's hard to deny material reality. I think any storyline involving the Gate's reveal would deal with those issues of believability.

And I return to a point I've made a couple of times, but will restate. Making the Gate public, especially after Universe is on its way, won't affect the state of the franchise. SG-1 and Atlantis are both done in televised form. And revealing the Gate would gladly add dramatic blood to both if they continue making a few DVD movies a year.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Everyone remember the episode '2010'? Where the Aschen allied with Earth and made the SGC make the Stargate program public? well the people seemed to take it well then, they had transporters zapping people all over the Earth and I can't see why the show can't introduce that again but using Asgard or ring transporter tech, how hard could it be to show something like an airport but with a ring transporter in it aswell.

All the major world governments already know about the Stargate and all agree for the program to be run by America, with the backing of Earths major governments all of the other world governments will probably come around to the same way of thinking in exchange for full disclosure of mission reports. Infact with full disclosure I can see SG teams looking similar to the Atlantis expedition, with members from many different countries with flags on their arms, it worked well in Atlantis so why could'nt it work for Stargate command.
We shouldn't be fearful of change, The Stargate franchise cannot continue to be just America America America. Why should SG teams be comprised of Americans? The Stargate franchise is broadcast around the world, are you telling me they can't get some foreign actors in to play certain rolls? i'd like to see a series where the changeover takes place from a 100% American run Stargate program to a Stargate program run by some kind of Stargate council comprising of world leaders.
When the commander of the SGC picks up the red phone why should it dial the president of the United States? if the show takes us along the path of disclosing it to the public they could just have it where the red phone goes through to the president of the Stargate council.

By using my idea to have a Stargate Atlantis film having the wraith attack Earth it's a perfect opportunity to have America disclose the Stargate program to the world, after the movie any future film or series can just make out that it's been disclosed for several months and the people of the Earth have come to grips with it, we can have a mention here and there about the world governments creating a Stargate council to work in conjunction with the SGC, just have the SGC commander mention something about it's a pain in the neck and it's a hell of a lot more red tape. The show can just go on as normal but with obviously a few differences. We could have a mention of a new world treaty called 'The Alien weapons Non-Proliferation Treaty' meaning the worlds nations agree that the Asgard technology should remain a secret within the SGC and the technology should only be released steadily and if it benefits mankind. We've already seen the SGC release technology and we saw Samantha Carter demonstrate Asgard holographic technology before.

The beauty is that we don't know how the world would react to news there is a Stargate and aliens exist, the writers can go down any path they choose. We could use the wraith attack on Earth as an excuse to make the worlds nations throw aside their difference and fight for survival, the aftermath of which sees a greater working together, even between the middle east and the west.


CHANGE CHANGE CHANGE PEOPLE! Don't be afraid of it.