Why are Star Trek fans made fun of more than Star Wars fans in popular culture?

[Nerys Myk]

Maybe it wasn't the focus but get this the creature designers went out and studied actual animal biology to make the xenomorph. So the xenomorph had more thought put in its design then most Star Trek aliens who were just humans dressed in makeup with random placement organs to make it "alieny".

Like seriously, what is the evolutionary advantage of a Vulcan having its heart in the ribcage with no "protection organs" surrounding it? We have a sternum to shield our heart and our lungs act as a cushion for our heart, what do the Vulcans have?

Trek is primarily a TV show, so it's turn and burn when it comes to aliens. Not a lot of time to figure out the physiology of the alien of the week. They find the "gimmick" that saves the day and move on to the next one. We don't know much about the Vulcan anatomy. Their rib cage may have a different structure than a human's with different organs around the heart. We'll never know, until we do.

 

[fireproof78]

Maybe it wasn't the focus but get this the creature designers went out and studied actual animal biology to make the xenomorph. So the xenomorph had more thought put in its design then most Star Trek aliens who were just humans dressed in makeup with random placement organs to make it "alieny".

Definitely not Star Trek's way.

Fans have devoted more thought to it than most writers and designers.

Of course, the titular Alien is the only alien life in that series so that helps. You just get all the kid toy variants of the xenomorphic phenotype.

 

[xenotaris]

Definitely not Star Trek's way.

Fans have devoted more thought to it than most writers and designers.

Of course, the titular Alien is the only alien life in that series so that helps. You just get all the kid toy variants of the xenomorphic phenotype.

I hope I'm not setting a bad example of an ALIEN fanboy but there are more alien species in the ALIEN series besides the xenomorph. Excluding the Yautja from the Predator series. There are the Engineers, Space Jockey (Maybe they are Engineers, maybe they are a distinctly different species), the Arcturians (possibly), the Neomorphs, Praetomorphs (David's Xenomorphs), the Protomorphs (Shaw's Fetus, Trilobite, Deacon) and Pathogen mutants (like Fifield and the Hammerpede). If we include the expanded universe there are even more aliens like the Fulfremmen, Reapers, Druthkari, Amengi, the Arctura and the occasional one-scene wonder aliens from the comics.

As for the kid toy part. The xenomorphs are a highly adaptive species, they take on the characteristics of their hosts to better survive its environment.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Also alot of the speculative biology parts of the ALIEN series was explored in the Dark Horse Comics, Novels, Video Games, and through several Tabletop RPGs. As for the Predators, the expanded universe gave us the language and culture of the Yautja.

That's what "expanded universes" are good for. Trek books are full of details about its aliens. Occasionally it filters into the canon. The Klingon language is a good example of that.

 

[HotRod]

They're just good friends.

 

[xenotaris]

That's what "expanded universes" are good for. Trek books are full of details about its aliens. Occasionally it filters into the canon. The Klingon language is a good example of that.

Any Star Trek novels that offers good speculative biology info on the Star Trek aliens?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Any Star Trek novels that offers good speculative biology info on the Star Trek aliens?

Probably. I haven't read one in years and the ones I have read are fading from memory. Memory Beta lists a book called The Star Fleet Medical Reference Manual from 1977 that I vaguely remember.

 

[xenotaris]

Probably. I haven't read one in years and the ones I have read are fading from memory. Memory Beta lists a book called The Star Fleet Medical Reference Manual from 1977 that I vaguely remember.

Cool. Well there is always Kindle, I've been re-buying all my ALIEN books on that.

I do like Star Trek and Star Wars, I just wanted to remind my fellow sci-fi fans that we ALIEN fans are just as devoted. I am envious of how explored Star Wars and Star Trek is compared to ALIEN; (not counting the expanded universe of course).

Outside of Alien Resurrection, the AVP movies and the Alien-Predator EU; we barely know anything about Earth in the alien universe. Like who runs Earth? We know that Corporations have a big presence in the Sol system and we know that the United States Colonial Marines presence confirms that America is still around in the 22nd century.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

I was asking what do Star Trek fans think about the two sci-fi horror franchises

Splitting hairs a little, but I’d call myself a science fiction fan first and clarify that being a Star Trek fan is secondary to that.

It’s a chicken/egg situation I guess, but broadly speaking I find I like pretty much any sci-fi setting (when well done). The world of Alien is just as valid and interesting a universe as the world of Blade Runner, Doctor Who, Babylon 5 or… well, whatever else. :-)

 

[fireproof78]

I hope I'm not setting a bad example of an ALIEN fanboy but there are more alien species in the ALIEN series besides the xenomorph. Excluding the Yautja from the Predator series. There are the Engineers, Space Jockey (Maybe they are Engineers, maybe they are a distinctly different species), the Arcturians (possibly), the Neomorphs, Praetomorphs (David's Xenomorphs), the Protomorphs (Shaw's Fetus, Trilobite, Deacon) and Pathogen mutants (like Fifield and the Hammerpede). If we include the expanded universe there are even more aliens like the Fulfremmen, Reapers, Druthkari, Amengi, the Arctura and the occasional one-scene wonder aliens from the comics.

As for the kid toy part. The xenomorphs are a highly adaptive species, they take on the characteristics of their hosts to better survive its environment.

I only followed about 3 of those. But, then, I only watched 3 films and gave up. I love the biology but hate the way the aliens are used. The toys were more interesting that the films.

 

[xenotaris]

I only followed about 3 of those. But, then, I only watched 3 films and gave up. I love the biology but hate the way the aliens are used. The toys were more interesting that the films.

I do like the old Kenner xenomorph toys and their NECA remakes. The First two ALIEN movies were the best, I liked Alien 3 but at the same time hated it for killing off the characters from the previous film.

Alien Resurrection was a dumpster fire of a movie, the only movie that was worse in the series to it was Alien Vs Predator (2004). AVPR was a bad movie but its one of my guilty pleasures since I enjoyed the Unrated version which gave more characterization to the Predator Wolf (personally one of my Favorite Yautja besides Jungle Hunter and City Hunter).

Prometheus was trying to expand the ALIEN universe up, you might say it was trying to turn ALIEN into Star Trek. But its sequel, Alien Covenant, did a uno-reversal on that one.

Alien Romulus is well a better do over for Alien Resurrection.


Ironically when ALIEN was entitled Starbeast and before HR Giger and Ridley Scott was brought on the project. The Alien as envisioned by Dan O'Bannon was supposed to have been a scholarly species, the alien we see is an unruly youngster. Had the adults of its kind didn't die off, they would have raised it to be less violent.

 

[fireproof78]

Splitting hairs a little, but I’d call myself a science fiction fan first and clarify that being a Star Trek fan is secondary to that.

It’s a chicken/egg situation I guess, but broadly speaking I find I like pretty much any sci-fi setting (when well done). The world of Alien is just as valid and interesting a universe as the world of Blade Runner, Doctor Who, Babylon 5 or… well, whatever else. :-)

Exactly. It's absurd to divvy it up. I started out with books far before Trek when it came to scifi, so treating one franchise someone how more or less is just not my style. There are some I prefer, like Trek, or Star Wars or Farscape, and others that are not for me, like Alien, Predator, Blade Runner, or Doctor Who. And there are elements usually interest me in each of them, even if I'm not taken with the story.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Exactly. It's absurd to divvy it up. I started out with books far before Trek when it came to scifi, so treating one franchise someone how more or less is just not my style. There are some I prefer, like Trek, or Star Wars or Farscape, and others that are not for me, like Alien, Predator, Blade Runner, or Doctor Who. And there are elements usually interest me in each of them, even if I'm not taken with the story.

It’s the worlds I enjoy. I like Star Trek, Star Wars etc. because they have a sense of being part of a ‘universe’ in which I can imagine living.

Sometimes that’s a very cool feeling (Star Wars, Star Trek, Stargate, Firefly etc.), sometimes it’s really not (Dune, Blade Runner, The Expanse).

Regardless, I enjoy the feeling of something taking place in a ‘world’.

I think in this, Star Wars is just as effective as Star Trek, the difference being that Star Wars leans into more Tolkienesque territory (primordial evil, the sins of the father, mythology and so on), whereas Star Trek leans (and I’m aware I’m being generous when I say that word) towards realism.

Nobody could come away from The Empire Strikes Back and think it’s just some binary good vs. evil pew pew movie with no depth? I mean, surely? Like it or not, it’s not brainless spectacle.

If the first Star Wars movie seems simplistic, well… it kind of had to be to get people on board. That was the genius of it. It was a big swing and everybody in the industry was convinced it was going to be a disaster.

Instead it redefined the concept of cinema science fiction… so I think it’s fair to say there’s some clever stuff going down in what may seem like quite a superficial movie.

I don’t think Star Wars captured an entire generations imagination in the space of one movie by being dumb or superficial. It’s a very cleverly crafted movie on pretty much every level.

When it came to doing a sequel, remember also Star Wars didn’t go for a retread. The second movie expands and deepens the universe itself as well as the relationships between the characters.

And you know what… I say all of that not even as a particular Star Wars fan. I like Star Wars and I know a fair bit about it… but it’s not my favourite thing.

Still, there’s no way it’s dumb. It can be, as can Trek, but like Trek, most of the time it’s pretty smart and the wider Star Wars universe… I don’t even know. I’ve barely touched the expanded media but I know it goes deep and then deeper again…

 

[xenotaris]

Exactly. It's absurd to divvy it up. I started out with books far before Trek when it came to scifi, so treating one franchise someone how more or less is just not my style. There are some I prefer, like Trek, or Star Wars or Farscape, and others that are not for me, like Alien, Predator, Blade Runner, or Doctor Who. And there are elements usually interest me in each of them, even if I'm not taken with the story.

I'm curious what part of ALIEN, you do not like beside the title?

 

[Richard S. Ta]

I'm curious what part of ALIEN, you do not like beside the title?

I believe that Mr Fireproof’s tastes tend to veer away from Dystopias.

I do get that. The Alien universe is cool, but I don’t feel it’s somewhere I’d like to live.

 

[Nerys Myk]

He also doesn't care for horror. Alien is horror...IN SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE!!!!

 

[Richard S. Ta]

I don’t like Horror as a genre.

 

[xenotaris]

I think in this, Star Wars is just as effective as Star Trek, the difference being that Star Wars leans into more Tolkienesque territory (primordial evil, the sins of the father, mythology and so on), whereas Star Trek leans (and I’m aware I’m being generous when I say that word) towards realism.

Eh I think ALIEN leans more to realism then Star Trek, there is still alot of fantasy tropes in Star Trek.

Like Vulcans are Elves, Andorians are Fey, Tellerite are Dwarves, Klingons are Orcs, Romulans are Dark Elves, Ferengi are Goblins, then you have Gods like Q and Apollo. And on occasion you get magic episodes. Highlights: TOS Kirk learns magic on that one planet. TNG Riker gets God powers for an episode. There was basically an anime showdown in DS9 between Prophet Kira and Pah-Wraith Jake. VOY Chitokay has his magic native american kit and spirit journey.

 

[xenotaris]

He also doesn't care for horror. Alien is horror...IN SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE!!!!

Oh, yeah I can see where that is a problem for some folks. I'm okay with horror since I was practically raised on Monster movies, my favorite movie series besides ALIEN is Jurassic Park.

Also I watch a lot nature documentaries and there is a lot of body horror in the natural world, especially when dealing with insects and deep sea life

I agree, horror is not everyone. I like the horror genre but only if its a creature feature aka Monster movie. I hate slasher flicks. I'm okay with zombies, vampires, werewolves, mutant plants, killer dinosaurs, kaiju, cosmic horror eldritch abominations, and monstrous aliens.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Oh, yeah I can see where that is a problem for some folks. I'm okay with horror since I was practically raised on Monster movies, my favorite movie series besides ALIEN is Jurassic Park.

Also I watch a lot nature documentaries and there is a lot of body horror in the natural world, especially when dealing with insects and deep sea life

I agree, horror is not everyone. I like the horror genre but only if its a creature feature aka Monster movie. I hate slasher flicks. I'm okay with zombies, vampires, werewolves, mutant plants, killer dinosaurs, kaiju, cosmic horror eldritch abominations, and monstrous aliens.

I’ll say. When Alien first came out a whole group of us went, including a girl who had just turned 18. Alien was her first R rated film. She had to be half carried out of the theater because of the state the film left her in.