I don't think it's so black and white anyways. There's no such thing as a person who is wholly good or wholly evil. The case is likely this: People who are mostly good can be swayed to be "bad" in the name of authority. That shouldn't be that difficult of a concept.
Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?
- Thread starter JarodRussell
- Start date
Your world must be so simple.
Do you honestly believe that without the influence of religious belief that people wouldn't commit hate crimes and try to limit the rights of gay people? Or that people wouldn't allow their children to die because they think they can pray away the illness instead of taking them to a doctor? Or that religious extremists wouldn't fly planes into buildings because they thought they would get a reward in the afterlife.
Those people were going to do that anyway, religion is just an excuse?
Is religion your excuse for ignoring any development in science that doesn't agree with your ancient myths?
Actually, I'm glad you said that.
So I guess I was wrong in thinking that people like you were simply fooled into evil by their pigheaded adherence to a badly translated roll of parchment from the Bronze Age.
Turns out they are simply evil. Good to know.
Do you really think all of that would not happen without religion? I know some atheists that hate gays. I also know atheists that don't go to the doctor because they think doctors know jack shit. And you really believe Osama bin Laden's own press that it was a religious crusade? Billshut. He hated the US with or without religion, and he would have found loyal henchmen without religion as well.
If you banned religion, people would simply find other justifications for their actions. Declaring religion the root of all evil is stupid. And I say that as an atheist.
^ JarodRussell, I agree. (Hmm, have I ever said that before? )
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Mark that day in the calendar!^ JarodRussell, I agree. (Hmm, have I ever said that before?
The End is Nigh.^ JarodRussell, I agree. (Hmm, have I ever said that before?
I think the three of them have fundamentally failed to understand each other there tbh.
I don't think AP was declaring religion the root of all evil, just saying that it can be powerful enough to trick otherwise decent people into acting in predjudicial manners. Manners which without the influence of religion, they might think more critically about.
I don't think AP was declaring religion the root of all evil, just saying that it can be powerful enough to trick otherwise decent people into acting in predjudicial manners. Manners which without the influence of religion, they might think more critically about.
It isn't the root of all evil. But people who are smart enough are able to use it to justify anything to the people who follow them. Those people do truly believe and I don't think they're evil, just brainwashed. Most of the time the people preaching it are just as brainwashed, so it's basically a sad cycle of abuse.
I'm sure that religion could be done in such a way that it didn't lead to abuse, but that isn't happening anytime soon. Really the closest would be if Christians actually did what Jesus told them to do and help the poor and love everyone like they love themselves. But they rather try to control the lives of everyone around them. They're really lucky it's a myth, I doubt a single one would actually make it to Heaven. Heaven would only be Jesus, Old Yeller and Mr. Rogers.
I'm sure that religion could be done in such a way that it didn't lead to abuse, but that isn't happening anytime soon. Really the closest would be if Christians actually did what Jesus told them to do and help the poor and love everyone like they love themselves. But they rather try to control the lives of everyone around them. They're really lucky it's a myth, I doubt a single one would actually make it to Heaven. Heaven would only be Jesus, Old Yeller and Mr. Rogers.
You live in a sane country. In America, a decent portion of the country thinks that Jesus wants them to control the lives of women, gays and everyone who doesn't believe their nonsense. They even think they have a right to be a bigot because of their religion and try to pass laws to protect religious based bigotry.
I'd be happy if they just kept to themselves and left everyone alone. I try to treat everyone with a level of respect and not bother them, it shouldn't be hard to return the favor. Their pal Jesus would agree with me.
I tend to think the seeming proliferation of anti-gay activity in the USA is really just a reflection of what sudden and larger strides forward you are making in terms of equal rights and general acceptance into the mainstream.
You have majority support for marriage equality there, that's no small thing considering probably 90% of your country would identify as some sort of religion. You probably have pockets of extreme resistance, but I really don't think things are as bad as you are making out.
You have majority support for marriage equality there, that's no small thing considering probably 90% of your country would identify as some sort of religion. You probably have pockets of extreme resistance, but I really don't think things are as bad as you are making out.
Does brainwashed mean they are of unsound mind? If not, they are still responsible for their own actions. If you are willing to harm others for your beliefs (and it doesn't matter if you believe in a god, a football team or Captain Picard), you are evil. And if the Nuremberg Trials are of any worth, the excuse "I was just following orders" (and variations) doesn't count either.
And I say this as an atheist, thank God nobody here had said as such.
And as an atheist I say, only God knows if you already knew that perfectly well or not.
They're doing evil, there aren't good people and evil people, just people. Only our actions can be.
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Amaris
Guest
Bingo.
When I was a super-religious Christian fundamentalist, it's not like I went around cackling with glee at the hopes of bringing down some non-believers. For example, when it came to homosexuality, I didn't dislike gay people, but I felt that if Jesus thought it was wrong and bad, then it must have been a really bad choice to make (at the time I thought it was a choice), just as one would smoke or drink. I honestly thought I was doing the right thing by trying to get them to turn away from being gay. I didn't want them to go to hell. My intentions were very good; but my course of action was negative, and wrong. Religion can make a good, decent person do things that hurt others.
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Amaris
Guest
Yeah. If one believes in it, and is sincere, I understand the need to try and bring people into the safe zone. Not that a number of the fundamentalist Christians here want that. From them I get the need to prove how right they are, and how wrong you'll be when you find out just how much God hates your sin. I don't sense much honest sincerity from the faith anymore, and certainly not from the ID/Creationist crowd. Anyone who wants to sneak their teachings in under another cover, and then blatantly deny it, is willing to do whatever it takes out of pride, not out of any sincerity of love. They don't want honest faithful, they want head nodding believers. That's the totally wrong way to go about it.
Just to clarify, I won't include all Creationists in that umbrella, because not everyone will be that way, but few have ever given me cause to think otherwise.
A lot of the problem with Creationism and it's spin-off ID is that they truly believe that it had to happen that way. That mankind came from two naked people in a garden who got tricked by a talking snake. That's where original sin comes from and requires Jesus to sacrifice himself. It's the foundation of their house of cards. Plus if you question it, you have to question the rest of it as well.
It's also the source of their bizarre attacks on Evolution because they're convinced that if one thing is wrong, the whole theory must be tossed out instead of looking into that one area. Usually these attacks are on areas that scientists figured out and tossed out anyway, like Piltdown man. No one teaches it except as an example of a hoax and how the scientific method is used to figure out what's real and what's not.
It's also the source of their bizarre attacks on Evolution because they're convinced that if one thing is wrong, the whole theory must be tossed out instead of looking into that one area. Usually these attacks are on areas that scientists figured out and tossed out anyway, like Piltdown man. No one teaches it except as an example of a hoax and how the scientific method is used to figure out what's real and what's not.
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