Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

[Amaris]

A lot of the problem with Creationism and it's spin-off ID is that they truly believe that it had to happen that way. That mankind came from two naked people in a garden who got tricked by a talking snake. That's where original sin comes from and requires Jesus to sacrifice himself. It's the foundation of their house of cards. Plus if you question it, you have to question the rest of it as well.

It's also the source of their bizarre attacks on Evolution because they're convinced that if one thing is wrong, the whole theory must be tossed out instead of looking into that one area. Usually these attacks are on areas that scientists figured out and tossed out anyway, like Piltdown man. No one teaches it except as an example of a hoax and how the scientific method is used to figure out what's real and what's not.

Good point. Genuine science corrects itself via the Scientific Method. Religious faith cannot change, only be reinterpreted, because to actually change the root of it means it was wrong, and a wrong religion is a false religion, and not one person who genuinely believes in their religion considers it false.

 

[JarodRussell]

It isn't the root of all evil. But people who are smart enough are able to use it to justify anything to the people who follow them. Those people do truly believe and I don't think they're evil, just brainwashed. Most of the time the people preaching it are just as brainwashed, so it's basically a sad cycle of abuse.

Does brainwashed mean they are of unsound mind? If not, they are still responsible for their own actions. If you are willing to harm others for your beliefs (and it doesn't matter if you believe in a god, a football team or Captain Picard), you are evil. And if the Nuremberg Trials are of any worth, the excuse "I was just following orders" (and variations) doesn't count either.

They're doing evil, there aren't good people and evil people, just people. Only our actions can be.

That's a fine distinction, but about as meaningful as "I didn't kill him, I only fired the gun. The bullet killed him." So good people are people who perform good actions, and bad people are people who perform bad actions.

 

[Deckerd]

That's not the point. The point is religion doesn't make you a bad person unless you were already ready to do bad things to begin with. It's just another reason that you use to justify your actions. If you're ready to kill someone "in the name of God", then you would be ready to kill someone without that religion as well.

You describe the outside point of view on that person. If someone kills infidels in the name of God, he is a hero and martyr for one group of people, and a monster for the other group of people. That doesn't affect the main point, that he's ready to kill someone for some reason.

But he wouldn't without a sound reason, like defending someone innocent for example.
Killing someone because an authority tells you so or else is not a good reason.

I didn't say anything about it being a good or bad reason. But it's a reason nonetheless.

You were the one who brought the absolutes good and bad into this.

 

[JarodRussell]

But he wouldn't without a sound reason, like defending someone innocent for example.
Killing someone because an authority tells you so or else is not a good reason.

I didn't say anything about it being a good or bad reason. But it's a reason nonetheless.

You were the one who brought the absolutes good and bad into this.

Do you even read what we write here?

I was talking about good and bad people/actions, and that religion is just one of many justifications used by people who do bad things.

Timelord was then talking about the quality of the justifications (sound/good or unsound/bad reason), which I wasn't talking about.

 

[Deckerd]

And I'm saying your definition of bad is different from the next person's.

 

[JarodRussell]

And I'm saying your definition of bad is different from the next person's.

Ok, fine. People who do stuff justify their actions. Religion is only one of many ways to justify your stuff. And people would still do the same stuff without religion.

Are we done talking besides the point?

 

[Deckerd]

Are we done talking besides the point?

This is what you said to start this.

A person is inherently good or bad.

So if it's off point, show me where?

 

[JarodRussell]

I'm sure that religion could be done in such a way that it didn't lead to abuse, but that isn't happening anytime soon. Really the closest would be if Christians actually did what Jesus told them to do and help the poor and love everyone like they love themselves. But they rather try to control the lives of everyone around them. They're really lucky it's a myth, I doubt a single one would actually make it to Heaven. Heaven would only be Jesus, Old Yeller and Mr. Rogers.

The problem is that everything can be abused. Religion is only one way to control the masses. The Nazis created their own form of religion, based on a false understanding of genetics, long-existing prejudice und general dissatisfaction in the population. For the "average" suicide bomber in the Middle East, faith is just the tip of the iceberg to make the last step. They blow themselves up because of hatred against their enemies, that's the root of their devotion. Muhammad Atta & Co were well educated people, and they probably didn't believe in the 72 virgins fairy tale one bit. They believed in their mission, and that's already enough.

Are we done talking besides the point?

This is what you said to start this.

A person is inherently good or bad.

So if it's off point, show me where?

It's a simplified statement, meaning if someone is ready to kill for his God, he would also be ready to kill without religious influence; if someone takes care for elderly in the name of God, he would also take care of them without religious influence.

If you don't think actions like murder can be labeled bad and actions like taking care of others can be labeled good, well then so be it. It doesn't matter that these terms are subjective. It is - again - besides the point, which is that blaming religion for everything is wrong.


We are of course running in circles now, as I've been saying the same thing over and over again to you.

 

[RyanKCR]

It isn't the root of all evil. But people who are smart enough are able to use it to justify anything to the people who follow them. Those people do truly believe and I don't think they're evil, just brainwashed. Most of the time the people preaching it are just as brainwashed, so it's basically a sad cycle of abuse.

I'm sure that religion could be done in such a way that it didn't lead to abuse, but that isn't happening anytime soon. Really the closest would be if Christians actually did what Jesus told them to do and help the poor and love everyone like they love themselves. But they rather try to control the lives of everyone around them. They're really lucky it's a myth, I doubt a single one would actually make it to Heaven. Heaven would only be Jesus, Old Yeller and Mr. Rogers.

Jesus also told people to stop sinning and turn from evil. He also told His followers to tell the Good News that everyone can be saved and to do so means turning from their sin. This was His main message. What you mentioned is only a part of what He said.

 

[Avon]

how can i sin when i don't believe in the concept? going to hell isn't a threat that means anything to me.

i do good things because i want to, not out of some obligation to a mystical being.

even if i wanted to believe i couldn't because i my brain doesn't do 'faith'.

 

[Davros]

Jesus also told people to stop sinning and turn from evil. He also told His followers to tell the Good News that everyone can be saved and to do so means turning from their sin. This was His main message. What you mentioned is only a part of what He said.

But he also made it clear that it isn't up to us to judge another for their sins while we have sins of our own.

 

[RyanKCR]

Jesus also told people to stop sinning and turn from evil. He also told His followers to tell the Good News that everyone can be saved and to do so means turning from their sin. This was His main message. What you mentioned is only a part of what He said.

But he also made it clear that it isn't up to us to judge another for their sins while we have sins of our own.

That's not quite accurate.

 

[Shazam!]

None of it's accurate.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Jesus also told people to stop sinning and turn from evil. He also told His followers to tell the Good News that everyone can be saved and to do so means turning from their sin. This was His main message. What you mentioned is only a part of what He said.

But he also made it clear that it isn't up to us to judge another for their sins while we have sins of our own.

That's not quite accurate.

Are you going to trot out the idea the sins have to match thing?

 

[Tora Ziyal]

^ The what?

 

[Amaris]

^ The what?

The idea that you can call someone out for their sin if it's not the same sin as yours. It's a very literal interpretation of the speck and plank parable Jesus spoke of in the book of Matthew.

 

[iguana_tonante]

It is - again - besides the point, which is that blaming religion for everything is wrong.

Good thing nobody is doing that, then. Really, how many times are you going to repeat that bold-faced lie, hoping nobody would notice?

 

[Davros]

Jesus also told people to stop sinning and turn from evil. He also told His followers to tell the Good News that everyone can be saved and to do so means turning from their sin. This was His main message. What you mentioned is only a part of what He said.

But he also made it clear that it isn't up to us to judge another for their sins while we have sins of our own.

That's not quite accurate.

Actually it's completely accurate.

Tend to the log in your own eye
Judge not lest ye be judged
let he who is without sin

 

[Tora Ziyal]

^ The what?

The idea that you can call someone out for their sin if it's not the same sin as yours. It's a very literal interpretation of the speck and plank parable Jesus spoke of in the book of Matthew.

Wow, never heard that. I'm kind of speechless.

 

[Awesome Possum]

It isn't the root of all evil. But people who are smart enough are able to use it to justify anything to the people who follow them. Those people do truly believe and I don't think they're evil, just brainwashed. Most of the time the people preaching it are just as brainwashed, so it's basically a sad cycle of abuse.

I'm sure that religion could be done in such a way that it didn't lead to abuse, but that isn't happening anytime soon. Really the closest would be if Christians actually did what Jesus told them to do and help the poor and love everyone like they love themselves. But they rather try to control the lives of everyone around them. They're really lucky it's a myth, I doubt a single one would actually make it to Heaven. Heaven would only be Jesus, Old Yeller and Mr. Rogers.

Jesus also told people to stop sinning and turn from evil. He also told His followers to tell the Good News that everyone can be saved and to do so means turning from their sin. This was His main message. What you mentioned is only a part of what He said.

He also told his followers to sell all their possessions and give the money to the poor. Have you done that yet? Have you actually read the Bible or just had a preacher tell it to you? I've read it and I've read your posts over the years, the Biblical Jesus wouldn't be a fan of your actions. You're a sinner if you accept his teachings and have absolutely no right to say anything about the sins of anyone else.

He didn't say let he with a different sin cast the first stone.