Why are Creationists so afraid of Evolution?

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by JarodRussell, Jul 2, 2013.

  1. Hunter X

    Hunter X Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    May 19, 2001
    That's not how Bible translation works...

    Although I agree your implication that it would be more helpful to see how ambiguous the Hebrew verb is, rather than go to the English. But even then a semantic argument is missing the point of the larger debate, which is more about genre than verb tense.
  2. Lt. Uhura-Brown

    Lt. Uhura-Brown Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    May 14, 2013
    New Zealand
    I believe "thou shall not suffer a witch to live" is actually a mistranslation of "thou shall not suffer a poisoner to live".

    The Latin word Venefica can be used interchangeably for both "witch" and "poisoner" so it's easy to imagine that someone using the wrong definition caused so much misogynistic persecution a few hundred years ago.
  3. Miss Chicken

    Miss Chicken Little three legged cat with attitude Premium Member

    Jul 23, 2001
    Howrah, Hobart, Tasmania
    Not just a few hundred years ago. 'Witches' are still being burnt alive in some places in the world today and some of those burnings are being done because some Christians still believe in witchcraft (in other cases it is other religious beliefs).
  4. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

    Jun 11, 2003
    RJDiogenes of Boston
    Yeah, I agree. I make the same argument when people tell me that technology is "unnatural," the prejudice being that any product of instinct is natural but any product of intelligence is unnatural. As if people and intelligence were not a result of the same natural processes as animals and instinct.

    I've always loved that. And I miss Carl Sagan. :(
  5. Llama

    Llama Captain Captain

    Mar 14, 2006
    Melbourne, Australia
    What people tend to forget is that human evolution is a triangle with biological evolution at one corner, technological evolution in another, and cultural evolution in the third. They are all tied into, and reliant on each other.

    If we didn't have our technology (even basic stone tools, clothes and fire) we would be long extinct. Without our thumbs, bipedalism and our big brains we would have no technology. Without our culture (e.g. war, trade etc) our technology wouldn't change, and our technology helps our culture to change too (iPods, iPhones etc). Our biological evolution (big brains, language, reproduction) is the basis for our culture. And our culture also influences our biological evolution, do we let disabled people live and reproduce and keep undesirable alleles within the population or do we let nature select them out of the gene pool? And now our technology is influencing our biological evolution via IVF and genetic screening and maybe one day via direct genetic modification.
  6. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

    Jul 2, 2009
    And, at least once every thousand years, could release a new version in the language that the majority of the planet speaks.
  7. Shazam!

    Shazam! Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Feb 22, 2006
    Reboot the bible.
  8. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

    Mar 23, 2004
    Gov Kodos on Mohammed's Radio, WZVN Boston
    Been done more than DC and Marvel combined.
  9. scotpens

    scotpens Vice Admiral Premium Member

    Nov 29, 2009
    Los Angeles, CA
    Science doesn't "reject" God any more than it rejects the plays of Shakespeare. To science, religion is simply irrelevant. Science and religion work different sides of the street.
  10. Llama

    Llama Captain Captain

    Mar 14, 2006
    Melbourne, Australia
    "You all know the Bible
    Is made of Testaments old and new
    You been told it's just those two parts
    Or only one if you're a Jew

    But what if I were to tell you
    There's a fresh third part out there
    Which was found by a hip new prophet
    Who had a little Donny Osmond flair?


    Wow, so the Bible is actually a trilogy, and The Book of Mormon is Return of the Jedi? I'm interested!"

    All-American Prophet from The Book of Mormon
  11. Tora Ziyal

    Tora Ziyal Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Feb 27, 2010
    Agree, but the verb tense is interesting. My best friend happens to be a scripture scholar -- Ph.D. in Hebrew Bible -- so I got on the phone this morning....

    What the NRSV (below) translates as "so" at the beginning of 19 is more literally "and then." My friend said that the syntax in the original Hebrew is what confuses some people: He does this. And then he does that. And then he says this. And then... And then... And then. The verbs are all technically present tense, but there's an unambiguous sequence to the actions. It was a common style of story-telling in Biblical times and is still used today.

    So, yeah, there is a contradiction. In the first chapter of Genesis, God creates plants, then fish and birds, then land animals, and then humanity (both male and female). In the second chapter, God creates a human, then plants, then animals and birds, and then divides the human into two (male and female, but literally husband and wife).
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2013
  12. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

    Jun 14, 2005
    Yeah! And while we're at it, why does science reject an infinite number of other things for which there is no evidence?
  13. RyanKCR

    RyanKCR Vice Admiral Admiral

    Mar 26, 2001
    RyanKCR is living here in Allentown
    I've always read the first two chapers in this way:

    The first part tells what I did in building models. The second part summerizes what I did so that I can tell explain that I offered one of them to my friend that I just met.

    I don't see a contradiction.
  14. Avon

    Avon Commodore Commodore

    May 7, 2010
    theres a condradiction if people started to literally take every word of that as true. like these bibleists do.
  15. Tora Ziyal

    Tora Ziyal Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Feb 27, 2010
    Problem is, your two parts aren't equivalent to the two Biblical stories. The equivalent would be closer to this

    and this:

    "I built the Enterprise, then the General Lee and the KITT, then the Airwolf, then the Blue Thunder...."

    And those details do contradict each other (the sequence, not the eventual end results).

    To me, contradictions in the Bible aren't a problem. I find it fascinating to try to understand the different points of view expressed in the details of different stories. But then, I don't believe the Bible is literal, factual history.

    To a Biblical literalist, contradictions are necessarily something to be danced around, explained away, and denied at all costs.
  16. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

    Oct 27, 2005
    the Frozen Wastes
    It's fairly safe to say that anyone who thinks the bible is an accurate historical record has never had to think very hard about anything beyond what clothes to wear in the morning.
  17. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

    Sep 15, 2006
    Italy, EU
    Do you mean something like this?

  18. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

    Apr 14, 2000
    QC, IL, USA
    Indeed. Science doesn't care about God one way or another. Science can only work with observable evidence, so until God gives us some, Science really can't be bothered to worry about him. If one day we find actual, hard proof of God's existence, that will definitely start being included in our scientific understanding of the universe.

    People are free to believe what they want, as long as they acknowledge that it's a belief. No amount of faith can prove the existence of God. Likewise, no amount of science can disprove the existence of God (at least not with our current understanding of how things work).
  19. Amaris

    Amaris Abiding Eos Premium Member

    Dec 25, 2002
    United States
    What really bothers me about the whole Creationism/Intelligent Design issue is that they have to sneak it into schools. They have to gloss over it and present it like you would an infomercial, complete with fake smiles, false dichotomies, and exaggerated numbers.

    "Oh, no sir! This isn't pseudoscience cloaked in Christian theology, mercy, no! This is something entirely different! This is Christian theology cloaked in pseudoscience!"
  20. marksound

    marksound Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Nov 19, 2008
    Planet Carcazed
    Instead of "creation vs evolution," which will never be settled in our lifetimes, why not take a look at a conversation between reasonable people about good vs. evil?

    Evil, Religion, and Responsibility