Who's in Charge?
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Before Worf came it would be Dax, and after it would be...Worf. He was from the Command division afterall. Odo and O'Brien weren't even officers. Even Bashir would come first than them I think..
Though the position of Odo in the chain of command is puzzling. Not sure where we would fit...Not being an officer and not being part of Starfleet...
And what about Eddington when he was there? Seems he would be second Officer before Worf and third after. Yellows are above Blues I guess...
Though the position of Odo in the chain of command is puzzling. Not sure where we would fit...Not being an officer and not being part of Starfleet...
And what about Eddington when he was there? Seems he would be second Officer before Worf and third after. Yellows are above Blues I guess...
Odo is next in charge IMO. He soundly schooled Worf when Worf came aboard and tried to run the shop. Odo is the man, and Worf takes a backseat to him (as shown in the series itself).
I don't see any reason why anyone would ever give Dax command.
Odo could barely run Ops, he needed Quark's help and was very unsure of himself.
Dax is over 300 years old, and has a long SF/Fed stuff history with a zillion species.
Good points, I agree.
I always thought it was pretty simple...
On the station
- Sisko
- Kira
- Worf
- Jadzia Dax
And on down the line. Odo was never part of the command structure, and even when he was the last man standin' (in 'Babel'), he essentially left Quark in charge of Ops when he transported out to the dockin' ring.
On the Defiant
- Sisko
- Worf
- Kira
- Jadzia Dax
Also, when Michael Eddington was part of the crew, he would have been below Kira in both lists. And, for the brief time it was him & Worf, Worf outranked him Eddington.
On the station
- Sisko
- Kira
- Worf
- Jadzia Dax
And on down the line. Odo was never part of the command structure, and even when he was the last man standin' (in 'Babel'), he essentially left Quark in charge of Ops when he transported out to the dockin' ring.
On the Defiant
- Sisko
- Worf
- Kira
- Jadzia Dax
Also, when Michael Eddington was part of the crew, he would have been below Kira in both lists. And, for the brief time it was him & Worf, Worf outranked him Eddington.
In "For the Cause", Dax apparently was the highest-ranking or highest-positioned officer on the station when Eddington eliminated her - or then the second-highest. Otherwise, Eddington's elimination priorities would make little sense.
Nevertheless, the station probably was teeming with various Lieutenants who at least initially would have contested Dax in terms of sheer rank. Even when we didn't see Eddington or his predecessor Primmin, there probably was a Starfleet security man of Lieutenant rank aboard the station all the time - but after Primmin and before Eddington, this man (woman, other) had the good sense to stay out of Odo's way. Odo may not have a position in the command structure, but he has a rather commanding position nevertheless...
I wonder if any other Bajorans besides Kira would have fit in the command chain at their "natural" places, i.e. those implied by their rank pins. One might choose to believe in all sorts of special arrangements where, say, Starfleet always trumps Bajoran militia unless specifically otherwise stated.
Timo Saloniemi
Nevertheless, the station probably was teeming with various Lieutenants who at least initially would have contested Dax in terms of sheer rank. Even when we didn't see Eddington or his predecessor Primmin, there probably was a Starfleet security man of Lieutenant rank aboard the station all the time - but after Primmin and before Eddington, this man (woman, other) had the good sense to stay out of Odo's way. Odo may not have a position in the command structure, but he has a rather commanding position nevertheless...
I wonder if any other Bajorans besides Kira would have fit in the command chain at their "natural" places, i.e. those implied by their rank pins. One might choose to believe in all sorts of special arrangements where, say, Starfleet always trumps Bajoran militia unless specifically otherwise stated.
Timo Saloniemi
The idea of Odo in command of either DS9 or the Defiant always struck me as weird. It didn't seem like a responsibility he would either seek, or be trusted with by Starfleet. Indeed, the security chief position seems to be a rather minimal one in Starfleet's eyes - only when combined with tactical officer does it seem to warrant a bridge position. TOS had Security Chief Giotto, for one episode. He was never on the bridge. Not to assume that he was always the security chief, but he was a LtCmndr, and one would have thought he might have been given command at least once. Yet in 'Catspaw' for instance, Kirk gives Assistant Chief Engineer Lieutenant DeSalle command when he, Spock, Scotty, McCoy, and Sulu are not aboard! Were there no other Lieutenant Commanders anywhere? Uhura at least seemed to have more bridge experience.
I digress though. I suppose if the command staff of the Defiant is just an extension of Sisko's blended command staff from DS9, Sisko can very well put whoever he wants in the chain of command or at a bridge/ops station. (Garak and Counselor Ezri, anyone?) Clearly Starfleet trusted Sisko's authority in the matter and gave him rather broad powers to do as he saw fit. I suppose there was also a notion that Starfleet needed to show respect for the Bajoran Provisional Government and the Bajoran Militia if they were to gain self-respect and stabilize for entry into the Federation.
I always preferred the often bandied-about notion that Worf's assignment to DS9 should have been to XO the Defiant and command it when Sisko was unavailable or had station duties, rather than 'strategic operations officer.'
I digress though. I suppose if the command staff of the Defiant is just an extension of Sisko's blended command staff from DS9, Sisko can very well put whoever he wants in the chain of command or at a bridge/ops station. (Garak and Counselor Ezri, anyone?) Clearly Starfleet trusted Sisko's authority in the matter and gave him rather broad powers to do as he saw fit. I suppose there was also a notion that Starfleet needed to show respect for the Bajoran Provisional Government and the Bajoran Militia if they were to gain self-respect and stabilize for entry into the Federation.
I always preferred the often bandied-about notion that Worf's assignment to DS9 should have been to XO the Defiant and command it when Sisko was unavailable or had station duties, rather than 'strategic operations officer.'
That is kind of how it worked out, even if it wasn't specifically stated as such.I always preferred the often bandied-about notion that Worf's assignment to DS9 should have been to XO the Defiant and command it when Sisko was unavailable or had station duties, rather than 'strategic operations officer.'
After all, Kira and Worf had that very discussion in "Apocalypse Rising" :
Worf: "You may command the station, Major, but I command the Defiant."
Kira: "The captain gave us his orders, and I intend for us to follow them until he issues new ones."
The inference from that is that while Sisko is in command of both the station and the ship, Kira is the first officer of the station while Worf is the first officer of the ship. Which makes perfect sense, given that DS9 is a Bajoran station and the Defiant is a Starfleet ship.
BUT - given that DS9 is the primary installation in the Bajoran system (no-one even lives aboard the Defiant except for Worf), the first-officer-ness of the station takes command priority over the first-officer-ness of the Defiant, meaning that Kira can still tell Worf what to do. As seen in "Apocalypse Rising" and "Tears of the Prophets," where Kira takes over when Sisko is incapacitated, even though Worf is right there on board.
EXCEPT - since Sisko is the overall commander, he can make whatever decision he wants as to who commands what and when. For example, he sends out Kira on the Defiant in "In Purgatory's Shadow" because Worf was elsewhere. And he brings Kira onboard the Defiant along with Worf in "Tears of the Prophets" because Bajoran interests have a role to play in an invasion into Cardassian space (that's my fanwank and I'm sticking to it), thus leaving Dax in command of the station. But the above would still be the default command set-up.
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I was wondering if Worf's actions in Change of Heart might have had other consequences than just "You might not get a command on your own after this." - maybe he was removed from the Defiant's command structure, or demoted to below Kira? Though personally I just assumed she took command in TOTP because she was the first one to notice Sisko was flaking out and there was no time to argue with Worf over who got to sit in the comfy chair....
It was Kira we saw Eddington shoot, but I think Dax was still on the station too. Unless he dealt with her offscreen, which would explain why Lt Reese sees him off...
Also Sisko mentioned putting Eddington in for a promotion in For the Uniform. That would have brought him up to full Commander level, wouldn't it? He definitely would have outranked Worf and Dax then...
And what about that time at Worf's trial where O'Brien seemed to think that he, rather than Kira, would have taken command of the Defiant had Worf been injured? Was he serious?
It was Kira we saw Eddington shoot, but I think Dax was still on the station too. Unless he dealt with her offscreen, which would explain why Lt Reese sees him off...
Also Sisko mentioned putting Eddington in for a promotion in For the Uniform. That would have brought him up to full Commander level, wouldn't it? He definitely would have outranked Worf and Dax then...
And what about that time at Worf's trial where O'Brien seemed to think that he, rather than Kira, would have taken command of the Defiant had Worf been injured? Was he serious?
Outranking a person doesn't strictly mean that you are above that person in the chain of command. In the DS9-R story Unjoined, Ezri Dax is a Lt. but Julian Bashir is a Lt. Cmdr. But because Dax is in command red and the mission was officially placed under her command by Kira, Bashir has to follow Dax's orders, even though he technically outranks her. Similarly, both Crusher and (post-"Thine Own Self") Troi outrank Data, but they are not in the main command structure, which as second officer Data is.
There's an interesting grey area where rank, position, ship's command structure and commander's fiat all intersect, because they are all different things.
That scene is constantly misunderstood, and I don't see why. It is not O'Brien saying he should have taken command. It's about asking what he might have done if he'd taken command. Big difference.
Regarding the consequences of what happened in "Change of Heart", I think either Starfleet let the mark drop after Dax's death, because that removed Worf's instability element as a commanding officer, or the Klingon's High Command pulled a few string to have their greatest's commander brother be allowed a command.
After all, we see Worf in command of the Defiant in "Image in the Sand". He was in command of a Klingon ship when it was destroyed in the badlands before "Penumbra".
I don't think there is a single moment when Kira effectively took over Worf's head on the Defiant without a stated reason, except in Tears of the Prophet, which was before Dax's death and after Worf's actions.
The moments I actually think: in The Sons of Mogh, Sisko didn't wanted Worf in command near Klingons. In Purgatory's Shadow, Worf is effectively out in a black op.
Outside of this, it ALWAYS has been Worf who took command of the situation on the Defiant. Over Dax, and over Kira. It makes a lot of sense, he is in a Command uniform, and is a A+ Starfleet Officer, shining everywhere in his career except for a few major stain.
Now, there is only 3 things I think of where there are problems:
1) Why in "Things Past", was Worf in command of the station over Kira?
2) Why in "Call to Arm", Dax in Command of the Defiant over Kira & Worf?
3) Am I the only one who thought Kor's death was possibly the greatest Klingon Moment, the most badass action we ever seen? And am I the only one that feels tears coming just thinking about such heroic display of badassery?
Oops. I remembered Eddington's choice of victim being debated back when the ep aired, but the debate was about the curious absence of Dax, not the onscreen elimination of Dax. Yes, one would think Eddington had to neutralize Dax somehow as well. Her, and several other key personnel involved in the cargo transfer. But there was no dramatic reason to show that on screen, I guess.
It should probably be noted that in "Starship Down", after Sisko was incapacitated, Kira was left on the bridge while Worf dove into the bowels of the ship. But that was a case of Worf taking command and ordering Kira to stay behind; Kira had no command role while staying on the disabled bridge, while Worf abandonded the bridge specifically to reach the true command center of the ship...
Because Kira wasn't even present? One would assume that the conference that our heroes attended on Bajor would have also required the presence of Kira - moreso than the presence of any of the other heroes. One would then also reasonably assume that Kira remained behind. We only see her aboard the station two days after the main action - and she indicates she has caught up to the events by reading a memo...
Because DS9 was the important combat asset there, and the Defiant only a second-rate assignment, of lesser importance and thus warranting a lesser commander? Kira's place is on the station whenever there is station action; Worf in turn has done a good job at firing the biggest guns in battles, and this time those were aboard the station.
Timo Saloniemi
CH'POK: "Chief O'Brien...if Mr Worf had been injured, could you have taken command of that ship?"
O'BRIEN: "I would have."
I'd again argue that O'Brien is another 'special' case - an enlisted man who due to his position in the senior staff, has a surprisingly high place in the command chain on DS9 and the Defiant.
Starfleet is a combined service, after all.
I would also think that Starfleet rules and regulations were lenient enough that the best person for the job could be given the occasional command, rather than one's rank. For some situations, I'd pick O'Brien to lead. For others, Jadzia. Likewise, in a battle situation, Worf over LaForge on the E-D.
That's rather out of the context. Remember how the scene actually plays out: Ch'Pok pesters O'Brien with a wholly unrealistic scenario, trying to make him tell how he would have handled the situation if he had been in command instead of Worf. O'Brien doesn't really want to do that, because if he were honest, he'd have to tell he would have handled it the human way, not the Klingon way, and that would incriminate Worf. But Ch'Pok presses on, clearly disinterested in mere technicalities such as "I would only take command if all the officers were out cold, not just Worf". So O'Brien, again the honest guy, won't offer those technicalities.
Or at least that is a valid way to read the scene, and a way that is compatible with current and past military practices.
Timo Saloniemi
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