Who's idea was "the Borg children"?

[Navaros]

I'm wondering what the deal is with "the Borg children"?

Who's "bright idea" was it to put "Borg children" on the show? What was the intended purpose of these children? Ie: was it supposed to be a "ratings grab" thing and if so, what is the logic behind that? When was it decided to make them "regulars" instead of one-episode guests?

Are "the Borg children" generally liked by Voyager fans, or hated?

Personally speaking, I am not a Voyager fan and I really, really can't stand the Borg children - most especially "Icheb". I don't get why Neelix is often cited as one of Trek's most annoying characters considering he's on the same show as Icheb. In my view Icheb is 100 000x more annoying than Neelix.

Thanks for your feedback about these questions.

 

[Hermiod]

It's unlikely that any such decision would have gotten past Brannon Braga. It was his show at the time, after all. Though Joe Menosky was taking some of the load at the time.

 

[The Borg Queen]

Icheb and the other kids were an unnecessary addition to the show, almost a cross between a male Seven of Nine and Wesley Crusher.

Perhaps they were included just to allow for more use of Naomi's character, with Icheb as a justification for including a group of new character arbitrarily.

And whatever happened to the Borg Baby?

 

[Timo]

Dunno... My perception is colored by the fact that I haven't actually seen the later seasons of VOY, just read them through Jim Wright's excellent "Delta Blues" treatises. But my impression was that Icheb was a well-working character who contributed to the show. Or more exactly, Icheb provided just enough dramatic value for his shining moment "Child's Play" and the episodes needed to carry him there from "Collective".

Then again, I always liked Seven's character, without actually seeing much of Jeri Ryan. And I still haven't seen or heard Intiraymi act the part of Icheb. Perhaps my experiences would have been more negative, had I first enjoyed these episodes with full visuals...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Navaros]

I probably would have liked Icheb too if I had just read about him rather than been subjected to him from watching the show.

When I made the first post in this thread, it was during the first part of Child's Play.

After having now seen the entirety of Child's Play, I conclude that it's an interesting story on paper.

However, I still can't stand Icheb. He drags the episode Child's Play down quite a lot in my view. I had to imagine the story being played out on paper with a less-annoying character in Icheb's place in order to come to appreciate that Child's Play is a good story on paper.

 

[The Borg Queen]

The actor doesn't really carry off "Borg" that well, the character's got the upbringing but not the attitude.

 

[exodus]

I liked the kids.

I think they showed that the Borg ruins lives, not just of adults but of children too. For example, Mazti couldn't go home because she had no home to get back too. That's tragic, a little girl now homeless much like how Neelix grew up.

Neelix was meant to be annoying, didn't Tuvok & the EMH say it over & over? Neelix was desperate. He'd been alone his whole life and now this luxury ship comes along full of people that need him. He was happy as a pig in shit but desperate because he feared loosing them. The crew of Voyager became his whole life. He couldn't stand the idea on not being liked, why else would annoy Tuvok the way he did?

Besides, fans complained over & over how Voyager isn't picking up anybody along the way. The writers heard the fans and added the Borg kids and fans still complained. If fans didn't like it, then we should becareful what we wish for next time because we did ask for it.

Plus, lets just tell it like it is: Trek fans just don't like children.

Sorry if that was a little harsh guys but vexes me when people complain about kids being annoying, it's annoying. That's how kids are, it's how we were as kids too.

 

[KitchenWitch]

exodus said:
For example, Mazti couldn't go home because she had no home to get back too.

Mezoti was from the planet that hosted the Tsunkatse matches. Given Voyager's actions there, it's not that Mezoti didn't have a home to go to, it's that Voyager couldn't safely take her there.

 

[exodus]

KitchenWitch said:

exodus said:
For example, Mazti couldn't go home because she had no home to get back too.

Mezoti was from the planet that hosted the Tsunkatse matches. Given Voyager's actions there, it's not that Mezoti didn't have a home to go to, it's that Voyager couldn't safely take her there.

I thought Janeway said they couldn't find her family and that's why she went with the twins?

 

[dru]

We needed more Icheb and Neelix should've stayed Tuvix.

 

[Akiraprise]

I also liked the Borg kids. They were fun additions, and let's be honest, they weren't featured all that heavily enough to be hated. Nothing like Wesley. They weren't know it alls, they weren't stuck up, they didn't save the ship every episode. The Borg kids were how I always pictured kids on Trek. Plus I liked their interactions with Seven and Janeway.

Borg kids = good addition to the show.

 

[Nebusj]

Navaros said:
I'm wondering what the deal is with "the Borg children"?

Well, when a Borg Mommy and a Borg Daddy assimilate each other very much ...

 

[Evil Twin]

Akiraprise said:
I also liked the Borg kids. They were fun additions, and let's be honest, they weren't featured all that heavily enough to be hated. Nothing like Wesley. They weren't know it alls, they weren't stuck up, they didn't save the ship every episode. The Borg kids were how I always pictured kids on Trek. Plus I liked their interactions with Seven and Janeway.

Borg kids = good addition to the show.

I agree. And if it wasn't for them we wouldn't have Seven's classic line "Fun will now commence."

 

[DS9Continuing]

They were there to allow more development for Seven, I thought that was obvious.

Voyager started off with Kes teaching the Doctor how to be human. When Kes left, Doc began teaching Seven how to be human. When the kids arrived, she began teaching them how to be human. It's simple.

I would assume they were there because they like the dynamic that was created with Seven and One in "Drone," and wanted to try something like that again.

 

[The Habs Fan]

I liked the Borg Children. It brought some continuity to Voyager. I mean, who would have guessed that these kids would be on Voyager by the end of Collective and show up in subsequent episodes? For once, Voyager didn't forget what happened in a previous episode.

 

[The Borg Queen]

Except for the baby...

 

[I Love Chakotay]

I didn't mind the kids per se, what I minded was that it felt as if they were brought on and kept on as yet ANOTHER string to Seven's bow or yet ANOTHER reason to keep her on screen as much as possible.

I got the impression that Braga was happiest writing his own characters which I suppose is understandible to some degree. Seven and the Borg kids were his babies (so to speak) and he was responsible for their dialogue and their growth. I think he liked writing Jeri Taylor's/Michael Pillar's Janeway and Doc, but he obviously wasn't very interested in writing in any meaningful way for Chakotay, Tuvok, Neelix, Kim... and maybe a little interested in writing for Paris and Torres as the token romance on the show because he HAD to (somebody had to be getting some on the ship of the Valkyries or it would have been unbelievable). So, imho, he birthed himself his own new characters to play with and to serve the Seven character. Which is a shame cos the kids took dialogue and growth time away from original characters who sorely needed it I thought. Bottom line for me is that while I liked the kids well enough, I got more and more frustrated with the manufactured/forced 'Seven as mommie' thing because of them. Personally, I think the Seven character would have been better served not exploring that side of humanity cos a)She'd have been better left with at least some major emotions unexplored and b) cos we had plenty enough of that 'motherly' role from the Janeway character. It was just cloying sometimes with both of them covering the same emotional ground

 

[exodus]

^^I always saw Seven being a "mommy" to the Borg kids as a way to make up for the anger she felt toward he own parents for risking her life. It was like righting a wrong.

I understand how you feel about Tuvok & Chakotay but not many warmed up to Neelix & Kim. I think some really good eps were written for both but nobody ever liked them or paid them any mind, same with Kes. How many Kes, Neelix or Kim stories can you honestly say you really enjoyed? Most can only name one for each.

 

[Akiraprise]

Well, to be fair there were only like two total episodes for Neelix and Kim for the entire series.

 

[I Love Chakotay]

exodus said:
^^I always saw Seven being a "mommy" to the Borg kids as a way to make up for the anger she felt toward he own parents for risking her life. It was like righting a wrong.

I understand how you feel about Tuvok & Chakotay but not many warmed up to Neelix & Kim. I think some really good eps were written for both but nobody ever liked them or paid them any mind, same with Kes. How many Kes, Neelix or Kim stories can you honestly say you really enjoyed? Most can only name one for each.

Good point about Seven's righting a wrong, but I still think that in the long run it did the character a disservce.

As to Neelix & Kim not being fan favs, it's chicken & egg isn't it. Could they have been more liked as characters if Braga had fleshed them out more and MADE them more likable by writing their threads more often (from season 4 onwards when he took over) and certainly with more care instead of ignoring them in favour of the Borg kids/Seven threads? Also, for me and many others who feel Seven was already overused by the time the kids arrived, by over-egging the pudding with the 'Seven as mommie' thing, what Braga did was make Seven a truly annoying and overused character. So, the kids were counterproductive really in that regard.

Akiraprise