Who's bigger? MJ or The Beatles?

[Rafterman]

Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

Okay now you're just being a bigot! That's all there is to it.

No, that's not. It was merely a critique based on the creativity used in creating the music that defined the man's career. Which wasn't much after Thriller. He spent the last 25 years rehashing the ground he staked in that album to continuing diminishing returns. His sales being as high as they were for his work following Thriller, a slow decline over the last two decades, I attribute to his die-hard fan base which you seem to be one of. If he ever would have had another ground-breaking effort, one of his later albums would have exceeded the sales of the album that proceeded it. That would have been evidence of him expanding his fan base. He never had that. .

The man has 13 number one hits, won 13 grammys, sold 750 million records worldwide over a period of 37 goddamn years and your going to sit up here and say he wasn't a musical genus? That's a lot of horse shit!
And that's not even including his time with the Jackson 5.

Being able to keep a die hard fan base over the course of several decades is what makes a great artist! Both the Beatles and Elvis record sales could be attributed to a die hard fan base. Most of which started off as teenage girls!

This is a comparison between two of the most significant acts in the recording industry. This is a comparison between two of the greatest acts in the recording industry. Not a comparison between one who is great and one who isn't!

I find your name-calling offensive and inflammatory and I believe it is against the rules of this forum. Please learn to discuss things like a rational adult. In no way did I refer to the man's racial make-up and to have you label me a bigot disgusts me to no end. Just because you have an obvious bias towards Jackson, and obviously turning a deaf ear to his actual work, is no reason to expect other people's opinions to change to suit your own.

What I find offensive is you not wanting to give a black man credit for his accomplishments! It's not like we are talking about MC Hammer here. We talking about MJ who has accomplished everything nessessary to be considered one of the biggest if not the biggest artist of all time! You're sitting up here scraping the bottom of the barrel looking for ways to spin him into being a one hit wonder.

The man was inducted into the rock and roll hall of fame twice!

So yes, I say you are being a bigot!

Black man?

He/She looked more like a white woman to me, spoke like one too.

 

[the Dagman]

Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

Yeah, but that's not what was said. He just that his fanbase was gullible and Jackson reused alot of stuff. I feel the same way about lots of artists including Jackson. Not to mention Elvis.

Well if he/she is willing to call the fanbase of the Beatles and Elvis gullible I will take back my statement. If not, my statement stands!

I never said he was a one hit wonder. I said he peaked with Thriller. The second album of his solo career. How is that not a fact? The numbers alone back that up. Please learn to read, spell and use the proper words. This is a written forum, so proper communication is key to conveying your thoughts and ideas.

BTW, all the members of the Beatles are also two-time inductees to the Hall of Fame. Both as a group and as solo artists. So it is still 4-to 1 against. And you want to read my last post in this thread (hint: it wasn't the one you most recently quoted). I will sum it up for you since your hatred of opinions that differ from yours seems to cloud your judgment:

Jackson: Talented song and dance man in the vein of Fred Astaire and Gene Kelly. Peaked with Thriller. Never achieved that level of ground breaking creativity again in his career. An influence on the dozens song and dance acts that have followed with record contracts.

The Beatles: Genius songwriters and talented musicians. Started on top with their first album after years of honing their act in England and Germany. Continued to push the creative envelope and greater success up to the end of the 60's. Broke up while on top. An influence on the hundreds, no, THOUSANDS of the recording music acts that followed their introduction and the 45 years since.

You just don't like the word "gullible" that I used to denote his die-hard fan base buying the hype that surrounded the man over the last 25 years. I was giving an honest critique of the talent and work of the two acts and never once did the man's race figure into my opinion. Get over yourself.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

BTW, all the members of the Beatles are also two-time inductees to the Hall of Fame. Both as a group and as solo artists.

Actually, that's not true. Ringo hasn't been inducted as a solo artist yet, but has appeared on the ballot recently.

 

[the Dagman]

Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

BTW, all the members of the Beatles are also two-time inductees to the Hall of Fame. Both as a group and as solo artists.

Actually, that's not true. Ringo hasn't been inducted as a solo artist yet, but has appeared on the ballot recently.

Really? My bad. I will take your word for it.

 

[FemurBone]

Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

I never said he was a one hit wonder. I said he peaked with Thriller. The second album of his solo career. How is that not a fact? The numbers alone back that up. Please learn to read, spell and use the proper words. This is a written forum, so proper communication is key to conveying your thoughts and ideas.

Thriller was the top selling album of all time. Nobody has achieved that level of success with a single album. Not The Beatles, not Elvis, nobody! Michael Jackson's following albums "Bad" and "Dangerous" were not as big as Thriller, but they still dominated their era.
And don't try to become an English teacher to draw attention away from your ridiculous claims!

Jackson: Talented song and dance man in the vein of Fred Astaire and Gene Kelly. Peaked with Thriller. Never achieved that level of ground breaking creativity again in his career. An influence on the dozens song and dance acts that have followed with record contracts.

That's not true! "Bad" released in 1987 spawned 5 number on hits!
"Dangerous" released after "Bad" sold even more albums.
Michael Jacksons music was always growing and developing. He had music influenced by just about every musical genre in existence. From Rock, to funk, to gospel, to classical, to metal, to caribbean and beyond. His ground breaking creativity did not stop with Thriller!

You just don't like the word "gullible" that I used to denote his die-hard fan base buying the hype that surrounded the man over the last 25 years. I was giving an honest critique of the talent and work of the two acts and never once did the man's race figure into my opinion. Get over yourself.

and I notice you're not going to call Beatles fans gullible. I guess that makes everything all-white doesn't it?

 

[Michael Chris]

Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

Just want to add, I love your "That's Racist Goggles."

 

[Guartho]

Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

Some co-workers and I were discussing this today and we were mostly split.

I say Michael Jackson was the bigger musical figure. Firstly, his music has spanned most of the globe while the Beetle's music mostly permeated Brittian/UK and the US.

The Beatles, If for no other reason than the fact that I read your thread title as "Who's bigger? Matt Jefferies or the Beatles?

 

[Zachary Smith]

Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

Can some of MJ's fan tell me which of his noteworthy songs he actually composed--music and lyrics please?

 

[Newt]

Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

The Beatles for me anyday. Jackson has a few songs I like, but the Beatles songs are very close to my heart. I'm sure many feel the same about Michael Jackson as I feel about The Beatles. Each to their own I guess.

 

[FemurBone]

Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

Can some of MJ's fan tell me which of his noteworthy songs he actually composed--music and lyrics please?

"Shake your body to the ground"
"Can you feel it"
"Don't Stop Until You get Enough"
"Workin day and night"
"Beat it"
"Billie Jean"
"The Girl is Mine"
"Say Say Say"
"Wanna Be Starting Something"
"Bad"
"The Way you Make me Feel"
"Another Part of Me"'
"Dirty Diana"
"Smooth Criminal"
"Leave me Alone"
"In the Closet"
"Black or White"

 

[the Dagman]

Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

I never said he was a one hit wonder. I said he peaked with Thriller. The second album of his solo career. How is that not a fact?

That's not true!

Go look up the word "peaked" and then get back to me and tell me how wrong I am again.

I am not the racist here.

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

I think saying he "peaked" with "Thriller" is... absurd.

Sure it was his best selling album and none of his other albums became that good but no other album ever since has either (and likely ever will considering the changing music industry). I think that going by that metric we could say NO artist is as good as Michael Jackson.

Thriller is an anomaly, it's an album that just blew everything away. It's an oddity that should really be set aside as not a metric to judge Jackson's career by as it's just so out there and out of wack that it's not fair or a complementation on him to judge him against it.

All of his other albums sold very, very, well. "Thriller" was hardly his "peak" it's just an anomaly.

 

[Broccoli]

Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

I agree with Trekker. Thriller was a unique thing in terms of sales. Saying he "peaked", while possibly true, can be somewhat misleading. His other records went on to be enormously successful, sales wise. Claiming that they were not judging it on Thriller is very silly.

FemurBone, what is with the racism claims against Dagman? Dagman, whether right or wrong, never once mentioned Jackson being black in his initial thoughts on Jackson's popularity/talent. You are the one implying that it was race related. I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure that wasn't what Dagman was suggesting.

And you would be correct. As I stated before, both Elvis and the Beatles have surpassed the billion mark. Michael is lagging far behind around the 750 million mark.

Man, what a failure.

 

[the Dagman]

Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

FemurBone, what is with the racism claims against Dagman? Dagman, whether right or wrong, never once mentioned Jackson being black in his initial thoughts on Jackson's popularity/talent. You are the one implying that it was race related. I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure that wasn't what Dagman was suggesting.

You are entirely correct. And thank you. I am a full blown, card carrying liberal and to have someone label me as a racist like he has goes against all that I believe in.

Just because someone has different opinions and tastes is no reason to go around calling people names like that. Present me with a cogent argument of a differing opinion to my own, I will happily respect and engage in such a conversation. I will even try to keep an open mind and cede well made points of the opposition. Call me a hateful term like "racist", and I will stubbornly dig in my heels and fight you tooth and nail.

I did not bring race into this, and I still think it has no place in this conversation. One thing I will cede and state here and now: Jackson's work transcended all races. (as did the Beatles for that matter) And to throw out the "racist" label now sells the man short.

 

[Zachary Smith]

Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

Can some of MJ's fan tell me which of his noteworthy songs he actually composed--music and lyrics please?

"Shake your body to the ground"
"Can you feel it"
"Don't Stop Until You get Enough"
"Workin day and night"
"Beat it"
"Billie Jean"
"The Girl is Mine"
"Say Say Say"
"Wanna Be Starting Something"
"Bad"
"The Way you Make me Feel"
"Another Part of Me"'
"Dirty Diana"
"Smooth Criminal"
"Leave me Alone"
"In the Closet"
"Black or White"

I think McCartney might have a gripe or two about classifying "Say Say Say" as purely a Jackson composition. Probably be happy to let him take full credit for "The Girl is Mine" though.

Let's see, that's 17 Jackson songs. Let's toss up 17 Beatles songs, my pick in no particular order to see how we compare.

"A Day in the Life"
"Hey Jude"
"She Loves You"
"I Wanna Hold You Hand"
"While My Guitar Gently Weeps"
"In My Life"
"Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band"
"Let it Be"
"Strawberry Fields Forever"
"All You Need is Love"
"Yesterday"
"Something"
"Come Together"
"Across the Universe"
"Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds"
"A Hard Day's Night"
"Help"
"Please Please Me"
"The Long and Winding Road"
"She Said She Said"
"Tomorrow Never Knows"
Here There and Everywhere"
"Eleanor Rigby"
"I Am the Walrus"
"Happiness is a Warm Gun"
"I'm So Tired"
"Dear Prudence"
Back in the USSR"
"Get Back"


Oops! That's 29. I guess I'll stop. That's a SMALL percent of the Beatles catalog with many classic songs not mentioned. (There's over 200 in the catalog . . .)

 

[Top41]

Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

Okay now you're just being a bigot! That's all there is to it.

No, that's not. It was merely a critique based on the creativity used in creating the music that defined the man's career. Which wasn't much after Thriller. He spent the last 25 years rehashing the ground he staked in that album to continuing diminishing returns. His sales being as high as they were for his work following Thriller, a slow decline over the last two decades, I attribute to his die-hard fan base which you seem to be one of. If he ever would have had another ground-breaking effort, one of his later albums would have exceeded the sales of the album that proceeded it. That would have been evidence of him expanding his fan base. He never had that. .

The man has 13 number one hits, won 13 grammys, sold 750 million records worldwide over a period of 37 goddamn years and your going to sit up here and say he wasn't a musical genus? That's a lot of horse shit!
And that's not even including his time with the Jackson 5.

Being able to keep a die hard fan base over the course of several decades is what makes a great artist! Both the Beatles and Elvis record sales could be attributed to a die hard fan base. Most of which started off as teenage girls!

This is a comparison between two of the most significant acts in the recording industry. This is a comparison between two of the greatest acts in the recording industry. Not a comparison between one who is great and one who isn't!

I find your name-calling offensive and inflammatory and I believe it is against the rules of this forum. Please learn to discuss things like a rational adult. In no way did I refer to the man's racial make-up and to have you label me a bigot disgusts me to no end. Just because you have an obvious bias towards Jackson, and obviously turning a deaf ear to his actual work, is no reason to expect other people's opinions to change to suit your own.

What I find offensive is you not wanting to give a black man credit for his accomplishments! It's not like we are talking about MC Hammer here. We talking about MJ who has accomplished everything nessessary to be considered one of the biggest if not the biggest artist of all time! You're sitting up here scraping the bottom of the barrel looking for ways to spin him into being a one hit wonder.

The man was inducted into the rock and roll hall of fame twice!

So yes, I say you are being a bigot!

Why on earth would it be bigotry not to like his music? I mean seriously. I didn't, sure as hell doesn't make me a bigot.

You need to actually read a post before you attempt to reply to it.

Denying the accomplishments of Michael Jackson is bigotry. Not disliking his music. My post makes that clear.

FemurBone, you're more than welcome to debate Dagman's claims, but calling the guy a bigot is out of line. There's nothing in his posts that suggests anything of the sort. Thinking Michael Jackson is overrated doesn't make someone a bigot. Debate him all you want, but don't resort to name calling.

 

[Davros]

Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

The Beatles are far more sifnificant than Jackson could have ever hoped to be. Hell all of his best stuff was from before he hit puberty.

 

[Broccoli]

Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

Can't Jackson and the Beatles both be good?

 

[TheArsenal]

Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

Jackson bigger then the Beatles?

Jackson was a one hit wonder, Thriller was it, PERIOD.

The Beatles, Stones, Grateful Dead, Doors, have all endured for DECADES.

Not so much. Jackson, with the Jackson 5, and later with his solo work like "Off The Wall" was huge for decades as well. Big as the Beatles? No. Of course not. But he was huge. Thriller was just the capper - and the apex before the descent.

 

[Rafterman]

Re: Who's bigger? MJ or The Beetles?

Jackson bigger then the Beatles?

Jackson was a one hit wonder, Thriller was it, PERIOD.

The Beatles, Stones, Grateful Dead, Doors, have all endured for DECADES.

Not so much. Jackson, with the Jackson 5, and later with his solo work like "Off The Wall" was huge for decades as well. Big as the Beatles? No. Of course not. But he was huge. Thriller was just the capper - and the apex before the descent.

Agreed, it was the capper and he has been in steady decline since.

He moved away from the Jackson 5 himself and wanted to be judged as a solo artist.